Re: Lawsuit threat against RBL users

[Karl Denninger <karl () Denninger Net>]

On Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 11:10:03AM -0500, Chris Mauritz wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Denninger [mailto:karl () Denninger Net]
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 1998 10:26 AM
> To: Chris Mauritz; 'Sheryl Chapin'; nanog () merit edu
> Subject: Re: Lawsuit threat against RBL users
>
>
> > The problem with this is that someone, sooner or later, is going to 
> > take a run at people trying to set up what amounts to a set of contractual
> > requirements that exceed legal requirements - and then enforce them network
> > wide.
> >
> > The collusive aspect of this is downright scary, especially when coupled
> > with threats of depeering, active denial of service attacks, etc.
>
> *shrug*
>
> If I am an ISP, I'm free to have whatever AUP I want.  IF clients don't like
> the AUP, they are free to shop elsewhere.  I don't have the ability to force
> other ISPs to use my AUP or even a close facsimile...nor is there is a
> method to enforce your 1984 vision anyway.  The net is a loose connection of
> public and private links.  If I own a private link and I decide that I'm
> going to route you into /dev/null...that's what I'll do.  There isn't a
> thing you can do about it.

You're right, as far as that goes.

However, when an industry adopts what amount to consistent policies, and
those policies reach beyond your own equipment and services (ie: "if you
spam from *anywhere*, even if you don't mention our service, even if you
don't drop-box onto our service, we will shut down your connection to us")
then IMHO you're asking for it.

Again, you can do anything you want as an individual company.  In this
business you can even try to do nearly anythnig you want as a group, since
holding together a "cartel" is darn difficult.  But if you actually achieve
consensus like this, and DO hold it together, there can be trouble.

> [snip]
>
> > There are a lot of "questionable" things that this industry does, but IMHO
> > this one is near or at the top of the list of things I'd talk to my counsel
> > about....
>
> Knock yourself out.  Be sure to let us know what your legal eagle has to say
> on the matter.  
>
> Chris

Why would I take this to my "legal eagle" Chris?  I have no stake in this
debate, but I believe that it is a good idea to point out that its plain
dangerous to play in these waters, and that those of you who want to should
be the ones talking to THEIR legal eagles.

--
-- 
Karl Denninger (karl () denninger net) http://www.mcs.net/~karl
I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give
up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization.