Fwd: Re: $110,000 for Gated Source Code

["Roeland M.J. Meyer" <rmeyer () mhsc com>]

So far, I've had a large number of questions about a statement I made here
in NANOG. The statement was made in passing, while I was looking for
sources for something that would run BGP4 and allow us to transition from
static single-homing to dynamic multi-homing. Rather than answer, yet many
more inquiries, I am posting the answer here in NANOG, to fore-stall
further such inquiries.

MHSC prefers open-source whenever we can get it and prefer to run
reference-standard code. This is why we run sendmail v8.8.8, qpopper, BIND,
and others. We are a Caldera VAR and our servers are built up from Caldera
Open Linux Standard edition, with about 30 add-ons <groan>. We *do* have
BRU, Netscape, and other commercial binaries that have been bought, but not
before attempting to find acceptable reference-standards. We have also
provided DewPoint/Caldera with input towards an Enterprise Server
distribution for Linux.

Anyway, we've applied for an ASN and ran into the BGP4 requirement. Ergo,
we were looking for the reference-standard BGP4 implementation, which is
GateD. We (I) was *very* surprised at the attitude exhibited at
<http://www.gated.org>. Very much anti-commercial. But, that does not
matter to me as I have $other$ things to worry about (Paying the rent
around here is one of them <sigh>). Ergo, having run *that* trail to
ground, I posted a query here in NANOG, that Dean Anderson, Shane Wright,
Craig Labovit, and others have answered.

I now have gated v3.5.9, for Linux, and am building it now. I'll probably
run into trouble, as I do with most things that don't have a configure
script, or have an otherwise non-standard build process (Why is it that
*only* the academic originated stuff is such a PITA? <sigh>).

Back to the point, we are a commercial technology R&D house that is also
bringing up an ISP (MHSC.NET). As such, since we actually have a
gawd-awful-scummy profit motive (why else form a corporation?), we do not
qualify for Academic membership in the Gated Consortium. The prices that I
quote here are for the level of membership which MHSC would have to sign-up
for in order to obtain what we really need. There are lower-orders of
membership, but if you look at the URLs you'll find that the minimum is
$10s of K-bucks$ for the first year, plus an annual maintentance agreement
of, at least, half of the first year premium (and we thought we had
profit-at-heart). Being a startup, we don't need such expense (it comes out
of *my* pocket, personally, and I ain't that rich).

Again, this is not a rant at the gated folks. I frankly wasn't much
surprised. I thank all those who helped me obtain the sources for
gated-3.5.9. BTW, Flemming did comment that since gated was NSF funded, it
may be inappropriate for such fees to be charged. In reallity, the message
clearly states that "start-ups need not apply". They just want to keep out
the riff-raff. I've long-ago quit getting emotional about these things and
have come to expect it from acadamia-types. 

The URL is ;
> The latest public release of gated is 3.5.9 and is available at:
>
> ftp://gated.merit.edu/net-research/gated/gated-3-5-9.tar.gz  
>
> Lots of information regarding licenses, bug reports, and releases can be
> found at http://www.gated.org/
>
>
> Cheers,
> Shane

Thank you, Shane.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 20:08:54 -0700
> To: Jim Fleming <JimFleming () unety net>
> From: "Roeland M.J. Meyer" <rmeyer () mhsc com>
> Subject: Re: $110,000 for Source Code
>
> At 09:46 PM 6/7/98 -0500, Jim Fleming wrote:
> > Roeland,
> >
> > I noticed your comment on NANOG about $110,000
> > for souce code. I must say, I was confused. What did
> > that cover ?

> > Who is that paid to ?
>
> As an answer, I'll quote a message I wrote to someone else about this same
issue.
> > At 08:24 PM 6/7/98 -0400, Dean Anderson wrote:
> > > > Where can I get latest and which is the latest. I prefer open-source but
> > > > I'll take binary-only if I don't have to cough-up the $110KUS for it.
GAWD,
> > > > what a rip-off!
> > >
> > > I'm curious, did someone actually claim to sell bgp4 for linux for 110K? If
> > > so, I'd like to know who...
> > >
> > >             --Dean
> >
> >
> >
> > From
<http://www.gated.org/new_web/code/doc/code_info/product/intro.html#Source
Code>
> > > Source Code
> > >
> > > The GateD source code, tools and documentation are based on three
different product lines: GateD
> > > Unicast, GateD Multicast, and GateD IPv6. Each of the products has its
own software base, release
> > > dates, and product descriptions. 
> > >
> > > New GateD Source code, tools and internal documentation are available to
GateD members only .
> > > Binaries for utilities or on-line documentation are available for
anonymous ftp or via the web. 
> > > Members of the Academic and Research community can join the Merit GateD
Consortium by simply
> > > filling out a GateD Academic and Research membership. This membership
requires that the member: 
> > >    sign the GateD Membership, 
> > >    register the machines to which GateD source code and/or binaries
will be distributed, and, 
> > >    agree to return any enhancements to the project for redistribution. 
> >
> > and as regards the price see
<http://www.gated.org/new_web/consort/member_info/prospects/howto.html>
> > > Across-Product Line Memberships
> > >
> > >  Gold Membership
> > >
> > >    Existing members of two product lines may elect the Gold membership
for $45,000. 
> > >    Existing members of one product line may select Gold membership for
$75,000. 
> > >    The fee for new members is $110,000. 
> > >
> > >    Gold Members have the top level access to GateD sources and to the
developers. Internships are
> > >    available for technical staff members from Gold members. Gold
members are helping bring new
> > >    protocols and services to GateD. Gold members may redistribute GateD
binaries for two product
> > >    lines in commercial products for the duration of the GateD
membership. GateD source code for
> > >    these two product lines may be distributed to development teams at
the Member's corporate
> > >    offices or research sites. Source code may not be distributed in
commercial products. 
> > >    Gold members may send 4 voting members to the GateD Consortium
meetings. 
> > >
> >
> > I say again, "GWAD, what a rip-off!"


_________________________________________________ 
Morgan Hill Software Company, Inc. 
Roeland M.J. Meyer, ISOC 
(RM993) 
President and CEO. 
e-mail:        <mailto:rmeyer () mhsc com>mailto:rmeyer () mhsc com 
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Colorado Springs, CO - Livermore, CA - Morgan Hill, CA 
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