Re: 20402 routing entries

[Daniel Karrenberg <Daniel.Karrenberg () ripe net>]

Peter & Yakov,

the only carrot/stick combination that is going to work
is to charge for announcements - period.

Make a charging scheme that punishes 

many small announcements

out-of provider block announcements

Convince the big transit providers to implement it and it
will percolate downwards.  This has some problems too but
is the only carrot/stick combination that will work better
than just convincing people to be good citizens.

Daniel
Speaking for myself only



  > "Peter S. Ford" <peter () goshawk lanl gov> writes:
  > 
  > 
  > Marty,
  > 
  > >a bit less than 28,000 currently configured "Internet" network
  > >numbres believe they have permanently gained their class B's and
  > >C's. Or at least the ones in the US believe that.
  > >
  > >a bit less than all assigned network numbers total believe that
  > >they have gained their class B's and C's and will never give up
  > >and renumber
  > >
  > >You have provided no incentive (carrot) for individual companies
  > >to do the right thing.
  > 
  > Let us try to answer your question with another question:
  > 
  >     Do you want a routable large scale global Internet ?
  > 
  > It is hard to imagine supporting a truly huge Internet without relying
  > on hierarchical routing (CIDR is simply a realization of
  > hierarchical routing).
  > 
  > And if you do plan to rely on hierarchical routing, then you need to
  > understand how to deal with the issue of containing address entropy
  > (due to switching among providers) without renumbering.  It seems naive
  > and perhaps irresponsible to think about flat routing (based on network
  > numbers).  It should be a goal to make this renumbering simple.
  > 
  > We'd like to suggest that folks with alternative proposals to CIDR
  > should put their alternative proposals on a table and explain, among
  > other things, how their proposals would be deployed and used and how
  > these proposals would be better than CIDR.  Hitting the right time
  > frame turns out to count!
  > 
  > 
  > When people got network numbers in the past they were getting addresses 
  > for the research Internet.  It is important to understand that the 
  > research Internet was a great thing, but we are now working on the 
  > global public Internet and we desperately needed new routing and addressing
  >  
  > systems.  We should establish that we are in a transition from the 
  > research Internet to the global public Internet and we subsequently
  > can not just use uncoordinated IP addresses and still have a workable 
  > system.  This is not dissimilar to what happened when local phone 
  > exchanges started to get interconnected during the advent of long 
  > distance telephone services.  There needs to be a globally coordinated
  > address space to make this work.  Reasoning by analogy with the phone syste
  > m
  > is a powerful argument.  People change phone numbers all the time, they 
  > don't absolutely revolt  because the phone system is so valuable.
  > Some elect to get 700 numbers, but they *PAY* for this service.
  > 
  > We suggest the following subjects be carefully considered:
  > 
  >     The old addresses of the research Internet need to be reorganized
  >     into the global public Internet addressing plan which is based
  >     on CIDR.
  >             
  >             Those addresses not currently  globally routed will not be 
  >             routed.  These new customers of the Internet should get 
  >             their addresses from their immediate providers.
  >             (This could be softened if there is a commitment  by the 
  >             customer to enter into the transition ASAP).  This also
  >             would cover the case of provider switching under CIDR.
  > 
  >             Those addresses that are currently routed will *eventually*
  >             be migrated to CIDR allocations.  This may take some time,
  >             on the order of years (2-5).  We could look for the 
  >             simple cases first (small/tiny sites).
  > 
  >     It is not fair to get people to renumber when they attach to 
  >     the Internet when they see that people already attached 
  >     are just sitting pretty.    We need to be consistent in the 
  >     application of standards and rules.  
  > 
  > Marty has brought up the subject of a carrot:
  > 
  >     The carrot is getting global Internet routing.  
  >     
  >     The stick is not getting global Internet routing.  
  > 
  > It is a dull  and boring argument, but it is the core of the debate.
  > There is extreme value in what we are trying to build with the global publi
  > c
  > Internet, and we need to impress on the customer base that we need
  > their help to make it possible to achieve our goals.  
  > 
  > We are not saying this is going to be easy, but it is rare that something
  > worth having comes for free.  
  >     
  > Peter & Yakov
  > 
  > P.S.  The number of uncoordinated IP addresses is higher than 30K.
  > 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -