Interesting People mailing list archives
Re: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:55:40 -0500
Begin forwarded message: From: "Charles Jackson" <clj () jacksons net> Date: February 10, 2010 9:47:32 PM EST To: "'Faulhaber, Gerald'" <faulhabe () wharton upenn edu> Cc: "'David Farber'" <dave () farber net> Subject: RE: [IP] Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks Well, Google never claimed to be providing a real broadband distribution service or significant infrastructure. Rather, they proposed an experiment. On Google’s blog, they claim that they are looking to offer service to between 50,000 and 500,000 people. If we assume 2.5 people per household, this works out to 20 to 200 K households. If we assume $1,000/passing, $1,000 more per active drop, and 10% penetration, then passing 50 K people (20K subs) would cost them $22 million. I think they can afford that. Heck, they might learn enough about future or emerging consumer needs that this experiment will be well worth the money. See http://googleblog.blogspot.com/ and http://www.google.com/appserve/fiberrfi. There’s also the political side. If they pick a medium sized community (100 K pop), with above ground utilities (easy to build), outside the snow and hurricane zones (no interruption of construction), and a poor cable TV system and no FIOS, their service could easily come out looking golden. Making the experimental network “open” probably costs them little and gives them another political plus. Chuck From: Faulhaber, Gerald [mailto:faulhabe () wharton upenn edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:15 PM To: Charles Jackson Cc: 'David Farber' Subject: RE: [IP] Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks Well, if we have a charitable organization willing to lose money on broadband distribution, fantastic! We’ll let search advertising subsidize infrastructure. I’m all for that; but then I don’t own any Google stock. My point re: CLECs is that a firm actually needs to have real experience in local distribution networks to make them work (i.e., run with reasonable reliability, not break down due to weather and poor outside plant, not have the fiber chewed up be squirrels, not have repeaters used for target practice, all the boring stuff that network guys know and Silicon Valley guys don’t), not just money to throw at the problem. When they’ve successfully trenched 5,000 miles of fiber under city and suburban streets and it actually operates for a year without failure, then they might have some network cred. Professor Emeritus Gerald Faulhaber Business and Public Policy Dept. Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 Professor Emeritus of Law University of Pennsylvania From: Charles Jackson [mailto:clj () jacksons net] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:56 PM To: Faulhaber, Gerald Cc: 'David Farber' Subject: RE: [IP] Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks I’m game to sharing this exchange with the IP audience. My response to Gerry’s response is that the proper model for Google’s experiment is not a CLEC (funded by investors trying to get their money back) but more like “Green Acres” in which Oliver Wendell Douglas can get by even if he doesn’t make any money farming. If Google is willing to lose a little money (in Google terms) and puts a good manager on the project, they can provide first-rate service. If they choose a market that is currently underserved, they could end up looking pretty good. If they offered service to 100,000 people, that would be about 40K households. If they got 10% penetration, that’s only 4K customers. It doesn’t take a lot of resources to give good service to 4K customers—especially if you are willing to lose $2 for every $1 billed. Chuck ====================== Charles L. Jackson 301 656 8716 desk phone 888 469 0805 fax 301 775 1023 mobile PO Box 221 Port Tobacco, MD 20677 From: Faulhaber, Gerald [mailto:faulhabe () wharton upenn edu] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:05 PM To: Charles Jackson Cc: David Farber Subject: RE: [IP] Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks Chuck [Dave, I’m happy to have this exchange on IP, if Chuck agrees]-- I mis-spoke. I meant experience in running a local distribution network, and was a bit sloppy in not being specific. But running a long-haul network is worlds apart from running a local distribution network. Evidence? Many of the CLECs circa 2000 were run by redundant AT&T operations guys, who thought they understood networks. Turns out they were clueless when it came to local distribution, and most went belly-up (helped along by recalcitrant ILECs of course). But these guys went into a business they didn’t understand while thinking they did understand it. Running Google’s CDN is no experience for local distribution. Professor Emeritus Gerald Faulhaber Business and Public Policy Dept. Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104 Professor Emeritus of Law University of Pennsylvania From: Charles Jackson [mailto:clj () jacksons net] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:47 PM To: dave () farber net Cc: Faulhaber, Gerald Subject: RE: [IP] Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks Gerry wrote: Google has never run a carrier-grade local networking business (besides its trivial Mountainside, CA WiFi network) and has zero experience in networking. Networking is a very different business from anything Google has done before . . . Google’s Internet backbone appears to be the second or third biggest backbone. Google runs an ENORMOUS network. A recent presentation stated that Google accounts for about 5% of Internet traffic—behind only Level 3 and Global Crossing. See http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog47/presentations/Monday/Labovitz_ObserveReport_N47_Mon.pdf. Google may not be an ILEC or cable company, but the organization must possess a significant (enormous?) amount of networking knowledge. They haven’t been doing access networks—but there are probably very few entities in the world that spend more on routers. If Google chooses to offer service in a community that has a poor cable company and no FiOS, they should find it easy to look golden (assuming that they are willing to lose a few hundred dollars per household passed.) Chuck (Charles L. Jackson) From: Dave Farber [mailto:dave () farber net] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 6:50 PM To: ip Subject: [IP] Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks I agree with Gerry. Djf Begin forwarded message: From: Gerry Faulhaber <gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com> Date: February 10, 2010 5:59:59 PM EST To: dave () farber net Subject: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks Dave [for IP] I am a huge enthusiast for more broadband competition and welcome Google into the business. I have always wondered why Google (whose market cap = $179B compared to total US cable industry = $95B) whined incessantly about the domestic BB providers when it could well have entered the market itself. It certainly has the financial strength to do so, and has for quite some time. Its entry (which this announcement perhaps heralds) is long overdue, in my book. But this is merely a blog announcement, and talk is cheap. Let's be cautious about how much we read into this. But let's be serious; Google has never run a carrier-grade local networking business (besides its trivial Mountainside, CA WiFi network) and has zero experience in networking. Networking is a very different business from anything Google has done before, and my guess is that unless they are in for the long haul, they will get their head handed to them...by customers who are unwilling to tolerate poorly performing networks. They have also shown themselves cack-handed at dealing with the politics of local distribution. Remember the Google/Earthlink San Francisco Free WiFi network proposal? Google, I certainly encourage you to get into this business. But this ain't no search engine biz; running carrier-grade networks for commercial and residential customers is tough and demanding and presents challenges you have never encountered before. I hope you are up to it. Professor Emeritus Gerald Faulhaber Wharton School and Law School, University of Pennsylvania ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Farber To: ip Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:25 PM Subject: [IP] WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks Begin forwarded message: From: "charles.brownstein" <charles.brownstein () verizon net> Date: February 10, 2010 1:18:05 PM EST To: David Farber <dave () farber net> Subject: Fwd: WSJ TECHNOLOGY ALERT: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks __________________________________ Technology Alert from The Wall Street Journal Google plans to build and test broadband networks that could deliver speeds more than 100 times faster than what most Americans use. The plan, announced on a company blog, could expand Google's position on the Internet by answering consumer demands for ever-faster connections. http://online.wsj.com/?mod=djemalertTECH Archives Archives ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
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- Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks Dave Farber (Feb 10)
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- Re: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks David Farber (Feb 11)
- Re: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks David Farber (Feb 11)
- Re: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks David Farber (Feb 11)
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- Re: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks Dave Farber (Feb 13)
- Re: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks David Farber (Feb 14)
- Re: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks David Farber (Feb 14)
- Re: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks Dave Farber (Feb 15)
- Re: Google Plans to Build Ultra High-Speed Broadband Networks David Farber (Feb 16)