Interesting People mailing list archives
Re: Network Neutrality and Groundhog Day
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:47:50 -0500
Begin forwarded message: From: Lauren Weinstein <lauren () vortex com> Date: November 14, 2008 4:08:19 PM EST To: dave () farber net Cc: lauren () vortex com Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Network Neutrality and Groundhog Day There are a number of factors that affect the current situation. Prior to the early '90s, it was common for municipalities to grant only a single cable franchise. Historically most areas have only had one physical traditional telephone (e.g. Bell, GTE/Verizon) company. In both the telco and cable environments, most landline competition was via sharing agreements where alternative services leased access to the physical infrastructure of the incumbent service. So while you paid your bill to someone else, the actual connection to your home or business was still provided by the incumbent. This can cause all sorts of logistical problems, especially when things go wrong. One day I'll write up the story of what happened during the (relatively brief) period when I had MCI Local POTS Service supplied over Pacific Bell circuits (to get a good toll plan) -- when one day the line went dead and a comedy of telecom company errors followed for many days. Deploying actual physical competing circuits is an expensive undertaking. Pole attachment charges are viewed as a big profit center in many places. Digging up neighborhoods and backyards again and again where underground is used triggers the wrath of homeowners. This leads to the practice of "cherry picking" -- and lying to municipalities. The companies prefer to build their networks where they think the return will be greatest. This is a natural decision in a commercial marketplace, but would not be the likely situation with government-owned networks. It's not just a matter of density, but of perceived disposable incomes as well. Unfortunately, there are cases on record where telecoms have promised to build in certain areas, but after wiring the well-heeled locales have reneged on the rest, often without significant penalties. Given enough spectrum, terrestrial wireless could ultimately make a significant positive dent, but at the moment the price/speed available in most cases can't compete with DSL/Cable offerings, even for those persons with appropriate line-of-sight, and the ability to install external antennas without having their landlords then find some other excuse to kick them out. It's possible that "white space" wireless technology will be of significant help in these regards, but it's way too soon to know how that will work out for now. If electric and water utilities were handled the same way that Internet access is managed today, we'd find people all over the place lighting their homes exclusively with candles and pumping water from polluted backyard wells. The big question is, has the time come to start treating Internet broadband access as a necessary utility in the U.S., and what would an affirmative answer to that question imply and require? --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein lauren () vortex com or lauren () pfir org Tel: +1 (818) 225-2800 http://www.pfir.org/lauren Co-Founder, PFIR - People For Internet Responsibility - http://www.pfir.org Co-Founder, NNSquad - Network Neutrality Squad - http://www.nnsquad.org Founder, PRIVACY Forum - http://www.vortex.com Member, ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy Lauren's Blog: http://lauren.vortex.com - - -
Begin forwarded message: From: Bob Drzyzgula <bob () drzyzgula org> Date: November 14, 2008 8:41:32 AM EST To: David Farber <dave () farber net> Cc: ip <ip () v2 listbox com> Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Network Neutrality and Groundhog Day On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 07:05:18PM -0500, David Farber wrote:Begin forwarded message: From: "Steven S. Critchfield" <critch () drunkenlogic com> Date: November 13, 2008 6:01:39 PM EST To: dave () farber net Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Network Neutrality and Groundhog Day Back to the idea of monopolies that Brett likes to argue against. There is exactly 1 "cable" operator. It used to be Viacom, and they sold the franchise to Comcast. There is exactly 1 "phone" company with wire to the homes. Wireless is the only option here for competition that isn't dependent on one of the government anointed monopolies. The AT&T here is a defacto monopoly because they are the only phone company that owns any copper to the homes. Comcast is a monopoly as they only have the ability in our market to drag coax to the home. Independent ISPs here ride AT&T copper to the home. They may be able to colo in the switch facility and get the traffic out there to their own networks, but it still had to cross AT&T's network.There's one thing I don't completely understand about this. When it is claimed that "[Only Comcast has] the ability in our market to drag coax to the home" I'm wondering what, precisely, is implied by the term "ability". Are the impediments regulatory, financial, or perhaps the result of some private restriction? On my street, in Gaithersburg, Maryland, there are currently three sets of communications cable hanging on the poles: Verizon's twisted pair, and coax-to-the-premises cable systems from both Comcast and RCN. I can buy DSL from Verizon or from some number of CLECs, Cable modem from Comcast or RCN, and I'm sure there's wireless ISPs (Clearwire had an application before the planning commision in the past year for an antenna a few hundred yards from my house) as well as the 3G options from the four major cellular providers. Both of the cable TV companies offer telephone; I use RCN's and it is delivered over their own twisted pair, although that copper only terminates in the box up the street. And FIOS is expected within a few months; it's expected to be available pretty pervasively at least in urban and suburban Montgomery County, except where they have trouble getting right of way agreements from private homeowners associations; my neighborhood is expected to be among the first because of the above-ground utilities. At the moment I have a Covad SDSL line for my servers and an RCN 20Mbps/2Mbps line for browsing and telecommuting. And with all this competition it's still too expensive. At the same time, I have co-workers -- people who commute daily to the same physical office as I do -- who cannot obtain DSL or Cable Modem -- or even Cable TV. So, no wired broadband for them. In at least instance, I know that the solution has been DirectTV for video and Verizon's mobile broadband for Internet. In his case I know the essential problem is that there just isn't sufficient density in his neighborhood to make a cable roll-out profitable. So I'm wondering: What is the lack of "ability" here that creates "monopoly" situations, and to what extent are they the result of government policy? --Bob Drzyzgula ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
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Current thread:
- Network Neutrality and Groundhog Day David Farber (Nov 12)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: Network Neutrality and Groundhog Day David Farber (Nov 13)
- Re: Network Neutrality and Groundhog Day David Farber (Nov 13)
- Re: Network Neutrality and Groundhog Day David Farber (Nov 14)
- Re: Network Neutrality and Groundhog Day David Farber (Nov 14)