Re: Vint Cerf on Google spectrum and the new "Die Hard"

[David Farber <dave () farber net>]

Begin forwarded message:

From: Bob Frankston <bob37-2 () bobf frankston com>
Date: July 24, 2007 2:28:37 PM EDT
To: dave () farber net, ip () v2 listbox com
Cc: Tim Pozar <pozar () lns com>, dewayne () warpspeed com
Subject: RE: [IP] Re: re: Vint Cerf on Google spectrum and the new  
"Die Hard"

We need to be careful to the word “price” rather than “cost”. I know  
that to the buyer it is a cost but we need to be careful to make it  
clear that these prices do not reflect the actual costs because, as  
Tim observes, there is no marketplace to establish a competitive  
price thanks to the Regulatorium’s ability to protect the industry  
from antitrust. If they weren’t able to keep all the capacity off the  
market the price would drop below cost and the business model would  
fail. An infrastructure model in which we pay for facilities not  
services is a viable alternative that would reflect the real (lack  
of) cost. But thanks to the mindset implicit in the FCC’s  
Regulatorium we are begging for more of that broadband rather than  
ability to communicate among ourselves.

We see this when we say last (or first) mile. It’s as if we are  
talking about railroads and are nostalgic for the Twentieth Century  
Limited between NYC and Chicago. There is a trivial cost (about $0/ 
month) for the GB connection within my house and the cost of running  
a wire to my neighbor is essentially zero. Where and how does this  
become a $2000/month cost for limited capacity?

Something went off the rails a long time ago when we bought into this  
idea that carrying packets locally is no different from carrying  
lumps of coal across the country.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Farber [mailto:dave () farber net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 13:09
To: ip () v2 listbox com
Subject: [IP] Re: re: Vint Cerf on Google spectrum and the new "Die  
Hard"



Begin forwarded message:

From: dewayne () warpspeed com (Dewayne Hendricks)
Date: July 24, 2007 12:50:37 PM EDT
To: Dewayne-Net Technology List <xyzzy () warpspeed com>
Subject: [Dewayne-Net] re: Vint Cerf on Google spectrum and the new
"Die Hard"

[Note:  This comment comes from reader Tim Pozar.  DLH]

From: Tim Pozar <pozar () lns com>
Date: July 24, 2007 9:27:31 AM PDT
To: Dewayne Hendricks <dewayne () warpspeed com>
Subject: Re: [Dewayne-Net] re: Vint Cerf on Google spectrum and the
new "Die Hard"

These numbers are not well defined.  Hopefully here are some data points
that folks can use...

Wholesale cost of 1Gb/s of *bandwidth* will be about $10,000.  This
would mean you are pushing or pulling 1Gb/s for 24x7x30.

Having a Gb/s connection to a provider that can push that out to the net
is a different matter.  This is the "last mile" costs.  Depending on
where you are and where you need to go, I have seen 1Gb/s pipes go for
down to about $2,000 a month.  In order to get these prices, you need to
be located in and go to a telecom center like 200 Paul in SFO, a 1
Wilshire in LAX or a 60 Hudson in NYC.  And likely you will only be
going across town for this price.

I have gotten quotes for 1Gb/s of pipe going from 200 Paul to 1 Wilshire
for $3 a Mb/s or $3,000.

BTW... It would be nice if there was a place that folks can get
competitive pricing on bandwidth and pipes.  It certainly would put more
pressure to drop these prices.

Tim

> Dewayne Hendricks wrote:
> [Note:  This comment comes from a reader who doesn't wish  
attribution.
> If you do the exchange conversion math, what Vint is saying is that
> you
> can get a Gbps for $72/mo in Kyoto.  I did some checking and the best
> wholesale price for a Gbps that I could find here in the U.S. was
> $3500/mo.  So what accounts for such a disparity?  DLH]
>
> Begin forwarded message:
> Date: July 24, 2007 12:03:41 AM PDT
> To: Dewayne Hendricks <dewayne () warpspeed com>
> Subject: Re: [Dewayne-Net] Vint Cerf on Google spectrum and the new
> "Die
> Hard"
>
> (no repub)
>
> Best quote:
>
> "It's embarrassing in some respects that we haven't found a more
> effective way of bringing broadband services. I'm even concerned  
about
> the broadband that is available.... It's not as fast as some of the
> other services in other countries -- you can get a gigabit per
> second in
> Japan, full duplex for 8700 yen a month. It almost made me want to
> move
> to Kyoto."
>
> Damn, it sucks here, for no f***ing reason I can see...


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