Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove
From: Paul Schmehl <pauls () utdallas edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:42:22 -0600
--On December 27, 2005 12:11:32 PM -0800 Kurt Buff <kurt.buff () gmail com> wrote:
Interesting line of argument, but really beside the point. You are correct that Leif has taken the wrong line of argument, but you yourself haven't quite got it right. Leif speaks as if the government has a right to monitor our thoughts. Such a stance indicates that we are property of (a|the) government. Just the opposite is true. The just government serves at the pleasure of its citizens, and must not be allowed any more power than what is strictly necessary, if any at all. For the US, the 4th Amendment applies, and all of the history surrounding it - secure in papers and effects, unreasonable search/seizure, etc.
Note the qualifier - "unreasonable".
Well, no, they are not "clearly illegal". That is a matter of opinion and not law. In fact, all legal precedents indicate that the program is legal, within the purview of the President's powers under Article II of the Constitution.The recent NSA actions (and older programs, too, such as Echelon), taken at the behest of Presidential directive, are clearly illegal, and destructive of the relationship between citizens and their government.
You are aware that Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War? Many people were outraged and insisted it was "clearly illegal", yet Article I, Section 9 states that habeas corpus cannot be suspended *except* in times of rebellion or invasion. So Lincoln's actions were Constitutional.
Just because you don't like something your government does doesn't make it illegal.
The 1st Amendment also applies, in that free speech can also be private, with unauthorized others excluded, for whatever reason, and/or anonymous. If government intrudes, it has an unwarranted chilling effect.
Really? Where in the First Amendment does it mention "private" speech? Paul Schmehl (pauls () utdallas edu) Adjunct Information Security Officer University of Texas at Dallas AVIEN Founding Member http://www.utdallas.edu/ _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Current thread:
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove, (continued)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Byron Sonne (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove GroundZero Security (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove coderman (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Bipin Gautam (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove J.A. Terranson (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Leif Ericksen (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove coderman (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove obnoxious (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Leif Ericksen (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Rodrigo Barbosa (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Kurt Buff (Dec 27)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Paul Schmehl (Dec 27)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Benjamin Franz (Dec 27)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Dean Pierce (Dec 27)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Kurt Buff (Dec 27)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Gary E. Miller (Dec 27)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Paul Schmehl (Dec 27)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Rodrigo Barbosa (Dec 27)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Leif Ericksen (Dec 26)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove coderman (Dec 27)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Leif Ericksen (Dec 28)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Rodrigo Barbosa (Dec 28)
- Re: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove Leif Ericksen (Dec 28)