Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause]
From: Ron DuFresne <dufresne () winternet com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:53:43 -0600 (CST)
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Mary Landesman wrote:
Interpretation is subjective, but I have always interpreted the Sam Spade rant to be directed at the alerting many of these PFWs do, vs. the actual effectiveness. In fact, his point seems to be to get a hardware-based firewall. This isn't an option for the "Annie's" of this world. Properly used, a PFW provides excellent adjunct protection and, I believe, is a must-have. In fact, even when hardware-based firewalls are available, a properly configured PFW can prevent the scenario played out over and over again with Blaster - laptops piggybacking the infection past the perimeter defenses (i.e., hand-carried in through the front door) and then wreaking havoc once inside. Had these enterprises also employed PFWs, that would not
And is what is meant by one of the fundamental principles of security; layering! Good point!
have occurred. (Of course, there are many reasons a PFW in the enterprise could be problematic and I do recognize that - but this isn't the focus of the discussion). NO solution is immune from user-error. Thus, folks who want to help out their friends and neighbors (and the Internet as a whole), should not just recommend a PFW, but take the time to show the person how to use it properly. And, yes, part of that should involve disabling alerting where prudent and taking a few moments to configure the appropriate trusted apps. Doing this will ensure the best chance (though never 100%) of a PFW working properly and effectively on "Annie's" computer. I use a NAT+firewall for my home network. But I also use a PFW. Why? It's great policy management. If I turn on a system my son also uses, I can keep his chat and other superfluous apps from connecting while I do whatever it is I need.
Additionally, the PFW in this case can be a warning of a problem in the HW FW, it either not functioning, malfunctioning, or someone actually finding a way to circumvent it. The PFW in this case being a config/activity chack of the HWFW. Silence is golden, even with a PFW setup to be chatting in this case <smile>.
In the Sam Spade article, it is clear he is frustrated with user inquiries into why something is alerting or what something in the log means. And his frustration is completely understandable. However, I think it is disservice to somehow interpret his frustration as an argument that PFWs are bad ideas. For many, they provide the best means of protection accessible to a particular breed of user. And, as such, their use should be encouraged. With proper training, of course. And yes, some malware can disable it. This is a fairly common tactic with some email worms. But that simply underscores the need to educate users about email - it is not, IMO, an indictment of PFWs nor is it a reason to not use one. Using your house analogy, that would be like telling someone not to bother locking their front door, because an intruder could come in through the back and unlock the front one... Better to learn to lock both doors, use the peephole, etc.
Good points! Thanks, Ron DuFresne ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation." -- Johnny Hart ***testing, only testing, and damn good at it too!*** OK, so you're a Ph.D. Just don't touch anything. _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause], (continued)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Erik van Straten (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Mary Landesman (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Ron DuFresne (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Ron DuFresne (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Kenton Smith (Jan 15)
- RE: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Chris Harrington (Jan 15)
- RE: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Erik van Straten (Jan 15)
- RE: Flawed arguments (Was all that other crap about PFW day) Paul Schmehl (Jan 15)
- RE: Flawed arguments (Was all that other crap about PFW day) Erik van Straten (Jan 16)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Mary Landesman (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Erik van Straten (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Mary Landesman (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Ron DuFresne (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Kenton Smith (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Ron DuFresne (Jan 16)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Mary Landesman (Jan 15)
- netlux.org down? :-( Exibar (Jan 15)
- RE: netlux.org down? :-( Nate Johnson (Jan 15)
- Re: netlux.org down? :-( Exibar (Jan 15)
- Re: netlux.org down? :-( William Warren (Jan 15)