Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause]
From: Kenton Smith <ksmith () chartwelltechnology com>
Date: 15 Jan 2004 10:27:02 -0700
These have got to be trolls. This is the most pathetic argument I have ever heard for not using security products. The software we use is bad and inherently insecure, people don't know what they're doing. Therefore the only solution is to open it all up and wait for the software vendors to fix all the software problems. That's the b*llsh*t. I know most of the people on this list don't have time for anything but themselves so I don't expect you to pay any attention to something like this. You just stay in your holes and keep looking for vulnerabilities. I know when everyone eschews personal firewalls as these brilliant posts suggest, your jobs will become much easier. Some of us actual believe (because we've seen proof) that a little education goes a long way. Instead of using your vast knowledge to tell people the weaknesses in these products, why don't you take a few minutes out of your valuable time to show people how to use one effectively? This is just another example of what a waste of time this list is becoming. Many of the people on here care nothing about security, they only care about berating everyone else and the choices they make (and I've fallen right into their stupid trap). Kenton On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 05:55, Erik van Straten wrote:
"http-equiv () excite com" <1 () malware com>:We hereby reject this utter horseshit unreservedly.Agreed - when it's intended to "protect" aunt Annie's Xmas present. It just makes NO SENSE to have PC's listening on lots of ports, by default on any interface, and then add a PFW to prevent anyone from accessing them. (much like building a wall in front of your house because your doors and Windows(TM) have broken locks). In particular because most Annie's have no clue what IP is, and undesired egress traffic easily bypasses PFW's (if the malware hasn't shut down the darn thing right away). Classic PFW = Snake Oil: http://www.samspade.org/d/firewalls.html If Annie's weren't members of Administrators, and members of Administrators would not have access to apps like IE and OE, and WindowsUpdate would not require admin privs to download, and there wouldn't be so many privesc sploitz, and the FS and registry would have much tighter perms by default, PFW's *would* make sense - for blocking undesired egress traffic. That is, provided that the PFW reliably starts before net I/O is possible, runs in "Safe Mode With Networking", and is not crowded with bugs itself. Cheers, Erik _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] http-equiv () excite com (Jan 14)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Erik van Straten (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Mary Landesman (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Ron DuFresne (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Ron DuFresne (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Kenton Smith (Jan 15)
- RE: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Chris Harrington (Jan 15)
- RE: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Erik van Straten (Jan 15)
- RE: Flawed arguments (Was all that other crap about PFW day) Paul Schmehl (Jan 15)
- RE: Flawed arguments (Was all that other crap about PFW day) Erik van Straten (Jan 16)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Mary Landesman (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Erik van Straten (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Mary Landesman (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Ron DuFresne (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Kenton Smith (Jan 15)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Ron DuFresne (Jan 16)
- Re: UTTER HORSESHIT: [was January 15 is Personal Firewall Day, help the cause] Mary Landesman (Jan 15)