Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household
From: "henry j. mason" <hmason () dbsinet com>
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:37:09 -0400
i agree with your assessment, basically, but: you say these 'uber-hackers' don't believe in full- disclosure, but you say they use it to learn? or, without full-disclosure (or any disclosure at all) they would learn anyway? care to posit some theories as to how? these people have tons of free time, yet a lot going on socially? i find those two mutually exclusive, unless you don't have a job, and job-less twenty- somethings are hardly the most motivated of people. i do grant you that there is a very small quiet minority of very skilled hackers. but they aren't t13r anything because they just do it because they have to, not for l33t recognition. henry Joshua Levitsky wrote:
I would add a tier before Tier I that would be hackers that do not believe in full disclosure, do not share exploits outside their close knit circle of friends, do not support "the man". A lot of these guys are better than "The best of the best", but nobody knows because they don't make themselves public. Maybe you could call it "T13r Z3r0" :) Seriously... there are people out there that have tons of free time to learn, and possibly monitor lists like this, and laugh at the silly people that disclose vulnerabilities and share information. They aren't necessarily out doing damage. They just don't play with strangers because they choose not to. Some of these people are damn cool. Some are just anti-social, but that really isn't the norm so far as I can tell. Of the people I've ever met they seem to have personalities, and usually have more going on than I do socially. If you met them you wouldn't think "hacker" or even know they are in to computers.I dunno... just my observations here in New York City. Perhaps it's different elsewhere.-Josh On Oct 13, 2003, at 1:02 AM, Joel R. Helgeson wrote:Tier I - The best of the best - Ability to find new vulnerabilities - Ability to write exploit code and tools Tier II - IT savvy - Ability to program or script - Understand wht the vulnerability is and how it works - Intelligent enough to use the exploit code and tools with precision Tier III - "Script Kiddies" - Inexpert - Ability to download exploit code and tools - Very little understanding of the actual vulnerability (launching Linux attacks against MS boxes) - Randomly fire off scripts until something works-- Joshua Levitsky, CISSP, MCSE System Engineer AOL Time Warner [5957 F27C 9C71 E9A7 274A 0447 C9B9 75A4 9B41 D4D1] _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Matt Carlson (Oct 12)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Valdis . Kletnieks (Oct 12)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household stefmit (Oct 12)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Robert W Vawter III (Oct 12)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Valdis . Kletnieks (Oct 12)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Joshua Levitsky (Oct 12)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Joel R. Helgeson (Oct 12)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Joshua Levitsky (Oct 13)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household henry j. mason (Oct 13)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Joshua Levitsky (Oct 13)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household morning_wood (Oct 13)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Georgi Guninski (Oct 14)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Jonathan A. Zdziarski (Oct 14)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen withinmy household Joshua Levitsky (Oct 14)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen withinmy household Jonathan A. Zdziarski (Oct 14)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen withinmy household Valdis . Kletnieks (Oct 14)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen withinmy household Jonathan A. Zdziarski (Oct 15)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen withinmy household Valdis . Kletnieks (Oct 15)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen withinmy household Jonathan A. Zdziarski (Oct 15)
- Re: OT: An odd question that has arrisen within my household Joshua Levitsky (Oct 13)