What is property and thus why are some things illegal.

["Craig Wright" <cwright () bdosyd com au>]

Hello,
You are correct on this David. The case that is cited as authoritative here are:

1       In terms of contractual completion:
Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain v. Boots Cash Chemists (Southern) Ltd. [1953] 2 QB 795

2       Charge of nuisance, right to exclude
Harrison v. Carswell (Harrison v. Carswell (1975), [1976] 2 S.C.R. 200)
Facts: The claimant, owner of a shopping mall sued the defendant, a protester for trespass to the claimant's property 
after the claimant asked the defendant to leave the premises The Defendant argued that the mall space is normally open 
to the public, so the owner has no right to exclusion

Decision: for the claimant (i.e. the owner of the mall)

Reasons: Dickson J - "one set of rights must prevail here"
-protesters have statutory right to protest on public property but private property owner's rights are set out in 
statute and in common law -refused to make a decision on private property (left it to the legislature) -Laskin - 
property rights must be balanced against competing rights (to protest) -the court was bound by R. v. Peters

This case demonstrates how property rights can supersede the rights of citizens and thereby undermine others' liberties 
(like it or not). The character of property can be important in analysis of an owner's right to exclusion.
 
It is forgotten that there are both rights and obligations under the law and that the general public has an obligation 
under the law (a general duty) not to interfere with the property rights of others. There are numerous people who 
disagree with these rights, but that does not make their action legal.

Another case is "R. v. Peters"
Held: an owner of private property can at any time revoke the privilege which normally allows members of the public to 
enjoy use of the property.

A person "is subject to liability to another for trespass, irrespective of whether he thereby causes harm to any 
legally protected interest of the other, if he intentionally . . . enters land in the possession of the other, or 
causes ... a third person to do so." RESTATEMENT (SECOND) OF TORTS § 158 (1965) see Bradley v. American Smelting & 
Refining Co., 104 Wn.2d 677, 681, 709 P.2d 782 (1985).

Trespass also applies to chattels.

Regards,
Craig

-----Original Message-----
From: David Gillett [mailto:gillettdavid () fhda edu]
Sent: 6 April 2006 8:24
To: Craig Wright; security-basics () securityfocus com
Subject: RE: What is property and thus why are some things illegal.

> (Caveat) First I am neither Marxist nor Anarchist nor do I live in a
> country that is. Each of these philosophies has a different view on
> property rights, but neither is one that I care about.
>
> Property (as defined in legal terms) as is associated with servers,
> routers and information systems in general is known in the law as
> consisting of "chattels". Servers are chattels.
> The data are Intellectual Property.

  Ansgar's comments about "putting <x> in a public place" and "walking through a mall" indicate that he believes that 
both shopping malls and the Internet are commons, not subject to private ownership, and therefore property rights do 
not apply.
  I believe he is factually mistaken, in both realms.

David Gillett



Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards Legislation in respect of matters arising within 
those States and Territories of Australia where such legislation exists.

DISCLAIMER
The information contained in this email and any attachments is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you 
must not use or disclose the information. If you have received this email in error, please inform us promptly by reply 
email or by telephoning +61 2 9286 5555. Please delete the email and destroy any printed copy. 

Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. You may not rely on this message as advice 
unless it has been electronically signed by a Partner of BDO or it is subsequently confirmed by letter or fax signed by 
a Partner of BDO.

BDO accepts no liability for any damage caused by this email or its attachments due to viruses, interference, 
interception, corruption or unauthorised access.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
EARN A MASTER OF SCIENCE IN INFORMATION ASSURANCE - ONLINE
The Norwich University program offers unparalleled Infosec management
education and the case study affords you unmatched consulting experience.
Tailor your education to your own professional goals with degree
customizations including Emergency Management, Business Continuity Planning,
Computer Emergency Response Teams, and Digital Investigations.

http://www.msia.norwich.edu/secfocus
---------------------------------------------------------------------------