RE: chat logs

[aixroot () mindspring com]

I do, in fact have children who I love very much and yes I talk to them and they know they can tell me anything.  

I do however agree with Mihai that a teenage grafitti prank while disturbing is not grounds for searching through all 
teens computers.  99.8% are completely innocent and do not deserve the big brother treatment.  Even teens need the 
ability to express their distaste for their principal or their ex-girlfriend or whatever and chat allows them to do 
this semi-anonymously.  The question then becomes if the teen in question is using public facilities such as school 
equipment, library, etc. then the county/municipality/city or what have you has every right to search.

Searching through all teenagers computers in your geographical area is EXTREMELY inefficeint at best.  Furthermore 
chances are that this disturbed teen does not have parents that have the caring or time necessary to hunt through logs 
to prove their son or daughter are responsible.  I'm sure that if you think about it, you'd realize that "if they are 
doing nothing wrong, then there is nothing to hide and have "private" is a spurious and specious bit of reasoning.  

We are all concerned about this situation but it will not necessarily become a columbine.  History shows us that people 
that act out like this will become bolder until caught or until they cannot wait to tell someone else and things are 
eventually leaked.  

My recomendation would be adding some physical security, to the school computer labs, cameras, perhaps a camera OUTSIDE 
the bathrooms.  Then school administrators can visits the restrooms in question between periods
and then bring in the police for questioning of the students that went in.  Locker searches, because this is school 
property, bomb sniffing dogs to sniff out students and faculty cars.  

There are more creative and more efficient ways of catching a theif or a vandal than by searching all computers. 

I would ask the question, what happens then when no evidence is found on any students home computers.  Do you then go 
to all the teen's uncle's and aunts houses, then to all adults?  Then to everyone outside of your district?  There is a 
slipery slope that you're dangling from and you might start alienating those in the security community that can best 
help you.  I very much care about the danger to the welfare of your town, but I also care very much about the right to 
privacy.  
 
I sincerely hope that this problem is resolved but I just wanted to point out that just because there is a problem does 
not give you GOD rights.





FYI

Melissa Fischer
Database Administrator
Data  and System Engineering
North Memorial Health Care
763/520-1533
melissa.fischer () northmemorial com

> > > Melissa Fischer 5/13/2005 10:49:39 AM >>>
I understand your concern, apparently you must not be a parent.
I have raised 3 sons, 24, 20 and now an 8 year old.  Teenagers talk to EACH OTHER, not to their parents.
Our parents HAVE personally talked to their children, looking at files on their computers is not taking away their 
privacy, if they are doing nothing wrong, then there is nothing to hide and have "private".



Melissa Fischer
Database Administrator
Data  and System Engineering
North Memorial Health Care
763/520-1533
melissa.fischer () northmemorial com 

> > > Mihai Amarandei <mihai () xmcopartners com> 5/13/2005 9:45:28 AM >>>
I'm glad too se everyone helping out to find the logs and giving advice on how to search those teen-agers web history.
Just me(and this has nothing to do with security), but wouldn't it be better that each parent asked directly its 
children about such incidents instead of searching and digining through their logs and web history?
I for one wouldn't like it that my parents knew all my browsing and chatting habbits, and I think this is the case for 
most of today's persons. Teens are as ,uch entitled to their privacy "apriori" as anyone else in my opinion.
I know all I've said has not much to do with security (actually it has to do with privacy), but neither is searching 
for logs.
I'm not trying to undermine the importance of the threat and the gravity of the situation, I just don't think such an 
intrusion of privacy would be a good answer.


Mihai
Blog: http://secinternship.blogspot.com 

Melissa Fischer wrote:

> Our community, Waconia, Minnesota has recently been the victims of 
> threats against our children and schools.
> http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5399090.html
>
> The Emergency Response Task Force assigned to our case asked parents to 
> go home and check their kids computers for any chats or emails with 
> information.
>
> We are trying to find a document explaining where and what to look at 
> to find any information.  We would like to post this on our school main 
> page www.waconia.k12.mn.us for a resource for parents to use on how to 
> find any information.  Can you tell me where to find this information?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
>
>
> Melissa Fischer
> Database Administrator
> Data  and System Engineering
> North Memorial Health Care
> 763/520-1533
> melissa.fischer () northmemorial com
>
>  


--
Mihai Amarandei-Stavila - Xmco Partners
Consultant Sécurité / Test d'intrusion

tel  : 33 1 47 34 68 61
web  : http://www.xmcopartners.com
Villa Gabrielle 75015 PARIS