Penetration Testing mailing list archives
Re: PCI Compliance Scope
From: "David M. Zendzian" <dmz () dmzs com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:07:16 -0500
It is not always about compromising the cardholder data but ensuring the security of the audit log behind all servers & services that store/transmit/process cardholder data. It is a tool used for "after the fact" analysis to determine what happened and where. Also, if you read through the pci-dss you will see logging mentioned throughout. Your auditor is going to have to take samples of your systems and should (i hope) ask for samples & validation that all those logs are stored offline (central log server), archived in accordance with policy & legal requirements, restricted access and monitored daily for security activities. One thing I also dig into is to be sure that all cardholder services are logged. Most people just stop at syslog on all services, but that normally does not get the application logs, database logs, ids and other traditional stand-alone services which are all also PCI services and need to be logged and monitored accordingly. Again, good luck! David Danux wrote:
Thanks all for your feedback, I will clarify the most common questions you asked: a) The Log Management server is a receiver so it is not able to reach PCI Assets. b) The Log Management server does not store PII/CC data. It seems like 80% of the audience thinks that if I am not storing PII/CC data in the Log Server and not direct access (push) to PCI assets then it should be out of scope. I asked the PCI Auditor that in my opinion the PCI goal was to protect CC data and since my Log Server is not able to reach PCI assets then it was out of scope. The PCI Auditor said exactly what David Glosser mentioned above, The goal in this point is to protect the Log Server from tampering. I totally disagree with that because I think PCI goal is to protect CC data and if no PII/CC is store in log server then it does not matter if someone is tampering it. Someone can tell me whether by getting usernames from log files you are gonna be able to bypass firewall to connect to PCI assets and or get passwords automatically and or steal/decrypt CC data? All this requires extra effort, usernames are not even considered PII since is something PUBLIC. Now, if the goal is to protect Log files then as i mentioned at the beginning of this conversation, all assets pushing info to Log server are in scope too!! because each one can reach it and therefore try to compromise it. CONCLUSION: Lets think as Auditors, if I want to convince PCI Auditor about putting my Log Server out of scope, I need trust resources. Do you have any documentation from trusted sources like NIST, Garner, so on where explains how to deal with this Scenario? Thanks all once again. I promise to let you all know the result of this point to know the real way in a PCI perspective to deal with. On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Eric Milam <emilam () coretechsg com> wrote:Its not my decision, last I checked I don't think the PCI Council allowed it as the only form of separation. Tracy Reed wrote:On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:42:35PM -0800, Eric Milam spake thusly:Basically the fear are base camps from which to launch an attack. As Erin stated below, if there are measures in place (not just vlans) to prevent access from the log machine to the Card Holder data environment then it may be that the device will be out of scope.Why not just VLANs? Do we not trust VLANs or are we worried about VLAN misconfiguration? Or switch compromise? Cisco commissioned a study by @Stake (IIRC) which made a pretty good case for VLAN security. Of course, that may just be Cisco getting the results it paid for. But it seemed reasonable to me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ This list is sponsored by: Information Assurance Certification Review Board Prove to peers and potential employers without a doubt that you can actually do a proper penetration test. IACRB CPT and CEPT certs require a full practical examination in order to become certified. http://www.iacertification.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- RE: PCI Compliance Scope, (continued)
- RE: PCI Compliance Scope Gary Everekyan (Nov 12)
- RE: PCI Compliance Scope Erin Carroll (Nov 12)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope Eric Milam (Nov 12)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope Tracy Reed (Nov 12)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope Eric Milam (Nov 12)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope Danux (Nov 12)
- Message not available
- re: PCI Compliance Scope Timothy Shea (Nov 13)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope Mohamed Farid (Nov 13)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope Gary E. Miller (Nov 13)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope rajat swarup (Nov 13)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope David M. Zendzian (Nov 13)
- RE: PCI Compliance Scope Jason Hurst (Nov 13)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope Danux (Nov 16)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope Eric Milam (Nov 12)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope David M. Zendzian (Nov 13)
- Re: PCI Compliance Scope Dotzero (Nov 16)
- RE: PCI Compliance Scope Bakshi, Narinder (FIN) (Nov 13)