Penetration Testing mailing list archives
Re: My Frustrations
From: Joseph McCray <joe () learnsecurityonline com>
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 01:58:58 -0500
Last year I posted a similar message to this list titled "I want the PT list back....": http://www.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/securityfocus/pen-test/2007-12/msg00052.html My frustration was similar to yours. I just missed how much I used to learn on this list. The security community has changed, and now the bleeding edge information is spread out across tons of blogs and the IRC servers where people dropped 0-day in the channel has transitioned to private silc servers. As I said in my previous post there are some REALLY smart people on this list that have forgotten more about security than I and a lot of other people on this list will ever learn. I used to b*tch about how I was so tired of reading the "I've just been hired to do a pentest - how do I scan a host behind a firewall" posts questions that I was about to swear myself off of this list. I had a buddy that pulled me aside and just told me - "You are just getting better as a security professional so you aren't in awe like you used to be." There is still plenty of stuff talked about on this list for newbies to learn from. Occasionally there is something that even pretty experienced people can learn from as well. As far as how you handle competing against incompetent security professionals (that often underbid you - no I'm not bitter...heheheheh...) and how that affects your business - now that I'm dealing with a lot of business development - I'm really learning that you are only as good as what you can convey to the customer. The customer isn't a security expert, and often can't differentiate between you and someone that's not as technical as you. In terms of business - that incompetent security professional either conveyed his value to the customer better than you did, or got the customer to believe that they didn't need to go with a larger more well known firm. As much as we are geeks and love geeky stuff - this is business. You have to be able to convey your firm's value to the customer. Show them the books you've written, the tools you've developed, your whitepapers, conference presentations, and demonstrate your knowledge of regulatory compliance. Provide credible references in your customer's industry, and most importantly prove how you add value with your professionalism, your customer service, your attention to detail, and your ability to explain complex problems to developers and administrators. If you are really that much better than someone you think is incompetent you shouldn't have an issue conveying that to the customer. I'm not saying all of this to be harsh - this has been a hard lesson for me to learn as well and I still struggle with it a lot. Hope this helps..... Joe On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 14:19 -0500, Adriel T. Desautels wrote:
I recently wrote this blog entry and wanted to get some comments from readers of this list. I'm frustrated with the caliber of the people that are offering security services and posing as experts, thats the subject of the post. Please comment, insult, whatever... I'm interested. http://snosoft.blogspot.com/ Adriel T. Desautels ad_lists () netragard com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This list is sponsored by: Cenzic Security Trends Report from Cenzic Stay Ahead of the Hacker Curve! Get the latest Q2 2008 Trends Report now www.cenzic.com/landing/trends-report ------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Joe McCray Toll Free: 1-866-892-2132 Email: joe () learnsecurityonline com Web: https://www.learnsecurityonline.com Learn Security Online, Inc. * Security Games * Simulators * Challenge Servers * Courses * Hacking Competitions * Hacklab Access "The only thing worse than training good employees and losing them is NOT training your employees and keeping them." - Zig Ziglar ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This list is sponsored by: Cenzic Security Trends Report from Cenzic Stay Ahead of the Hacker Curve! Get the latest Q2 2008 Trends Report now www.cenzic.com/landing/trends-report ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current thread:
- Re: My Frustrations, (continued)
- Re: My Frustrations Dotzero (Dec 18)
- Re: My Frustrations Sat Jagat Singh (Dec 18)
- RE: My Frustrations Shenk, Jerry A (Dec 18)
- Re: My Frustrations tony_l_turner (Dec 18)
- Re: My Frustrations Adriel T. Desautels (Dec 19)
- Re: My Frustrations Roman Medina-Heigl Hernandez (Dec 23)
- Re: My Frustrations Adriel T. Desautels (Dec 23)
- Re: My Frustrations Roman Medina-Heigl Hernandez (Dec 23)
- RE: My Frustrations Shenk, Jerry A (Dec 18)
- RE: My Frustrations Sat Jagat Singh (Dec 19)
- Re: My Frustrations Pete Herzog (Dec 20)
- Re: My Frustrations Adriel T. Desautels (Dec 19)
- RE: My Frustrations Shenk, Jerry A (Dec 19)
- Re: My Frustrations Adriel T. Desautels (Dec 19)