Re: Guest Column: Kentik's Doug Madory, Last Call for Upcoming ISOC Course + More

[Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc>]

> Are you saying the very org that brings us together, is not allowed to
> spur discussion based on newsletter content and cannot provide us with
> updates and/or reminders about various things?

I don't believe anyone is making that argument at all.

The published usage guidelines are what the organization, via the
membership, decided they should be. Those guidelines are clear that on THIS
mailing list (nanog@) , marketing initiatives aren't allowed.There is no
exception that says 'except for our own marketing'.

This list is for 'operational and technical content only'. We can't ban
people for trying to sneak marketing stuff through here (and we have) , and
then turn right around and do it ourselves.





On Sat, Sep 9, 2023 at 12:48 PM Ryan Hamel <ryan () rkhtech org> wrote:

> Martin and Tom,
>
> How is it a private marketing initiative exactly if the links go to
> stories on NANOG's website? Are you saying the very org that brings us
> together, is not allowed to spur discussion based on newsletter content and
> cannot provide us with updates and/or reminders about various things?
>
> Y'all have been making a mountain out of a molehill.
>
> Ryan
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 9, 2023 9:30:13 AM
> *To:* Martin Hannigan <hannigan () gmail com>
> *Cc:* Ryan Hamel <ryan () rkhtech org>; nanog () nanog org <nanog () nanog org>
> *Subject:* Re: Guest Column: Kentik's Doug Madory, Last Call for Upcoming
> ISOC Course + More
>
> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take care
> when clicking links or opening attachments.
>
> What network does Nanog-news operate?
> > Marketing email doesn’t  belong on an operational list.  Even if its
> > NANOG marketing itself.  (Ack Kentik non involvement).
>
> This is the right comment.
>
> The NANOG Mailing List Usage Guidelines  (
> https://www.nanog.org/resources/usage-guidelines/ ) are fairly clear
> about this.
>
> Posts to NANOG’s Mailing List should be focused on operational and
> > technical content only, as described by the NANOG Bylaws.
> > Using the NANOG Mailing List as a source for private marketing
> > initiatives, or product marketing of any kind, is prohibited.
>
>
> Sending this type of message to nanog@ is not appropriate, by our own
> rules. This issue will be raised at the next members meeting.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023 at 9:39 PM Martin Hannigan <hannigan () gmail com> wrote:
>
> > What network does Nanog-news operate?
> >
> > Marketing email doesn’t  belong on an operational list.  Even if its
> > NANOG marketing itself.  (Ack Kentik non involvement).
> >
> > Warm regards,
> >
> > -M<
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 8, 2023 at 20:52 Ryan Hamel <ryan () rkhtech org> wrote:
> >
> > > Randy,
> > >
> > > You're right, the problem is not technical. It's a choice to click the
> > > links or not. NANOG does not have to sanitize links for you. Those emails
> > > do not have to be read, and no one is stopping you from filtering them out.
> > > For you to say, "my privacy has been sold", is simply not true.
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > > *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+ryan=rkhtech.org () nanog org> on behalf of
> > > Randy Bush <randy () psg com>
> > > *Sent:* Friday, September 8, 2023 5:25 PM
> > > *To:* John Gilmore <gnu () toad com>
> > > *Cc:* nanog () nanog org <nanog () nanog org>
> > > *Subject:* Re: Guest Column: Kentik's Doug Madory, Last Call for
> > > Upcoming ISOC Course + More
> > >
> > > Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take
> > > care when clicking links or opening attachments.
> > >
> > >
> > > > It is totally possible to turn off the spyware in MailChimp.  You just
> > > > need to buy an actual commercial account rather than using their
> > > > "free" service.  To save $13 or $20 per month, you are instead selling
> > > > the privacy of every recipient of your emails.  See:
> > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailchimp.com%2Fhelp%2Fenable-and-view-click-tracking%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cryan%40rkhtech.org%7C4ac3a26bb5c4481c087908dbb0cbc6d7%7C81c24bb4f9ec4739ba4d25c42594d996%7C0%7C0%7C638298161499653329%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Pw6uDgHDzT%2BavOz1jYAbG4VzTyP0en0oiuBq0PmTtVI%3D&reserved=0
> > > <https://mailchimp.com/help/enable-and-view-click-tracking/>
> > > >   "Check the Track clicks box to enable click tracking, or uncheck the
> > > >   box to disable click tracking.  ...  Mailchimp will continue to
> > > >   redirect URLs for users with free account plans to protect against
> > > >   malicious links.  ...  When a paid user turns off click tracking,
> > > >   Mailchimp will continue to redirect their URLs until certain account
> > > >   activity thresholds are met."
> > > >
> > > > Don't forget to turn off the spyware 1x1 pixel "web bugs" that
> > > > MailChimp inserts by default, too:
> > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailchimp.com%2Fhelp%2Fabout-open-tracking%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cryan%40rkhtech.org%7C4ac3a26bb5c4481c087908dbb0cbc6d7%7C81c24bb4f9ec4739ba4d25c42594d996%7C0%7C0%7C638298161499653329%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iqkTsuhDFD3poxVltrN4x%2FWY6eXpbIivWxf4VAWcXKA%3D&reserved=0
> > > <https://mailchimp.com/help/about-open-tracking/>
> > >
> > >
> > > as usual, the problem is not technical.  there is no need for mailchump
> > > at all.
> > >
> > > nanog management has made a very intentional decision to sell my
> > > privacy.  nanog has come a long way, not all of it  good.
> > >
> > > randy