Re: Do ISP's collect and analyze traffic of users?

["Livingood, Jason via NANOG" <nanog () nanog org>]

+1 to what Josh writes below. I would also differentiate between mobile networks (service provisioned to individual 
devices & often carrier s/w on the device) and wireline networks (home devices behind a router/gateway/NAT).

I just don't think sale of data is a business for wireline ISPs. If it were - given most companies are public - you'd 
see it in SEC 10K filings and on earnings calls. Indeed, they'd be required to talk about it with investors if it was a 
material revenue stream. I see none of that. Rather, the focus is on subscription revenue. If you want to know about 
data monetization - focus on services you don't pay for...

Jason

From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+jason_livingood=cable.comcast.com () nanog org> on behalf of Josh Luthman <josh () 
imaginenetworksllc com>
Date: Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 09:43
To: Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc>
Cc: "nanog () nanog org" <nanog () nanog org>
Subject: Re: Do ISP's collect and analyze traffic of users?

Our ISP does not collect (nor obviously sell) customer information/traffic.  People volunteer all of their information 
on Facebook/Twitter/etc already, I'm not sure I see a concern.

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 9:07 AM Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc<mailto:beecher () beecher cc>> wrote:
I did see an article about Team Cymru selling netflow data from ISPs to governments though.

Team Cymru sold the same thing to the FBI Cyber Crimes division that any of us could purchase if we wanted to pay for 
it.

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 8:52 AM Rishi Panthee <rishipanthee () ryamer com<mailto:rishipanthee () ryamer com>> wrote:
I’ve got Akvorado and netflow to identify where traffic comes in/goes to so we can improve our peering and make less 
traffic go via transit. I did see an article about Team Cymru selling netflow data from ISPs to governments though. 
https://www.vice.com/en/article/dy3z9a/fbi-bought-netflow-data-team-cymru-contract<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.vice.com/en/article/dy3z9a/fbi-bought-netflow-data-team-cymru-contract__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!AdX4KK2veZ3cQX8jQB2xomCrDsHIFeUu9Ciu6M3tgLwYWOMpvKk2AV5L55a2sX9721iC7E8Q9tyi0lVDpsDtqP5dOgn8cQ$>


Rishi Panthee
Ryamer LLC
Https://ryamer.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__Https:/ryamer.com__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!AdX4KK2veZ3cQX8jQB2xomCrDsHIFeUu9Ciu6M3tgLwYWOMpvKk2AV5L55a2sX9721iC7E8Q9tyi0lVDpsDtqP7ptkTZDg$>
rishipanthee () ryamer com<mailto:rishipanthee () ryamer com>



On May 15, 2023, at 5:59 PM, Michael Thomas <mike () mtcc com<mailto:mike () mtcc com>> wrote:


And maybe try to monetize it? I'm pretty sure that they can be compelled to do that, but do they do it for their own 
reasons too? Or is this way too much overhead to be doing en mass? (I vaguely recall that netflow, for example, can 
make routers unhappy if there is too much "flow").

Obviously this is likely to depend on local laws but since this is NANOG we can limit it to here.

Mike