nanog mailing list archives
Re: ipv4 on mobile networks
From: Ca By <cb.list6 () gmail com>
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 11:52:37 -0700
On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 10:33 AM Michael Thomas <mike () mtcc com> wrote:
So I'm curious how the mobile operators deploying ipv6 to the handsets are dealing with ipv4. The simplest would be to get the phone a routable ipv4 address, but that would seemingly exacerbate the reason they went to v6 in the first place.
First, consider that the 3 major cell carriers in the usa each have 100 million customers. Also, consider they all now have a home broadband angle. Where do 100 million ipv4 addresses come from? Not rfc 1918, not arin, … and we are just talking about customer ip addresses, not considering towers, backend systems, call centers, retail …. So the genesis of 464xlat / rfc 6877 is that ipv4 cannot go where we need to go, the mobile architecture must be ipv6 to be comply with the e2e principle and not constrain the scaling of the customers / edge. Other cell carriers believe in operating many unique ipv4 networks … like a 10.0.0.0/8 per metro, but even that breaks down and cannot scale… and you end up with proxies / nats / sbcs everywhere just to make internal apps like ims work, which is a lot of state. Are carriers NAT'ing somewhere along the line? If so, where? Like does the
phone encapsulate v4 in 4-in-6? Or does the phone get a net 10 address and it gets NAT'd by the carrier?
~80% of traffic goes to fb, goog, yt, netflix, bing, o364, hbomax, apple tv, … all of which are ipv6. So, only 20% of traffic requires nat, when you have ipv6. I am hoping tiktoc and aws move to be default on for ipv6 soon. The nats dont scale well and take the brunt of attacks, so services that require nat suffer. Real shame, but they have a path to improve performance by deploying ipv6. Thats why performance driven companies use ipv6 (fb, goog, akamai, …)
It seems also for mobile carriers there is incentive for as much transit as possible for native v6 to the servers. Or is the deployment of v6 mainly within the carrier network itself and it's NAT'd somewhere? Basically what does a typical v6/v4 architecture look like for a mobile carrier these days? Mike On 10/23/21 8:13 AM, Brian Johnson wrote: On Oct 23, 2021, at 8:30 AM, Ca By <cb.list6 () gmail com> wrote: 87% of mobiles in the usa are ipv6 https://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/ Agreed. When they have to connect to an IPv4 only host, they do some type of AFTR. These devices have never known a world outside of this situation. That is a major difference.-- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice http://bryanfields.net
Current thread:
- Re: IPv6 and CDN's, (continued)
- Re: IPv6 and CDN's Bryan Fields (Oct 23)
- Re: IPv6 and CDN's David Conrad (Oct 26)
- Re: . (was IPv6 and CDN's) Bryan Fields (Oct 26)
- Re: . (was IPv6 and CDN's) John Curran (Oct 26)
- Re: . (was IPv6 and CDN's) John Levine (Oct 26)
- Re: . (was IPv6 and CDN's) Fred Baker (Oct 27)
- Re: IPv6 and CDN's Mikael Abrahamsson via NANOG (Oct 26)
- Re: IPv6 and CDN's Ca By (Oct 23)
- Re: IPv6 and CDN's Brian Johnson (Oct 23)
- ipv4 on mobile networks Michael Thomas (Oct 23)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Ca By (Oct 23)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Michael Thomas (Oct 23)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Masataka Ohta (Oct 24)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Ca By (Oct 24)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Mark Tinka (Oct 24)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Masataka Ohta (Oct 24)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Mark Tinka (Oct 24)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE (Oct 24)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Mark Tinka (Oct 24)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Masataka Ohta (Oct 25)
- Re: ipv4 on mobile networks Mark Tinka (Oct 25)