nanog mailing list archives
Re: Network visibility
From: Owen DeLong via NANOG <nanog () nanog org>
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 09:53:26 -0700
On Oct 21, 2021, at 08:55 , Mel Beckman <mel () beckman org> wrote:On Oct 21, 2021, at 8:19 AM, Owen DeLong <owen () delong com <mailto:owen () delong com>> wrote: No, but you are ignoring the point of my message… The TCP/IP internet existed _BEFORE_ the flag day you mentioned. The flag day was the end of NCP, not the beginning of TCP/IP. IIRC, at the time,Owen, But we’re not talking about the birth of TCP/IP. We’re talking about the birth of the capital-I Internet, which by definition runs exclusively on TCP/IP, and that didn’t start until Jan 1, 1983. Although there was experimentation using IP during 1982, that was still ARPANET. It was the guaranteed exclusive availability of IP that made 1983 the Internet’s birth date.
IMHO, that’s an absurd definition. It was still ARPANET after January 1, 1983 too. Prior to 1982, it was ARPANET on NCP. During 1982, it was ARPANET running on NCP+TCP/IP, much like the Internet runs dual stack today on IPv4 and IPv6. In 1983, NCP was removed from most of the backbone, as I hope will happen with IPv4 in the next few years.
And no, it’s not analogous to the eventual IPv6 transition, because both IPv5 and IPv4 are Capital-I Internet standard protocols.
You’re picking arbitrary definitions of Capital-I Internet standards. NCP was every bit as standardized as TCP/IP in 1982. Both were documented in the same IEN series of documents. IEN later (well after TCP/IP) evoked to become RFC. Don’t believe me? Look at the hosts.txt file from IPv4 days which still referenced IEN116. Owen
Current thread:
- Re: Network visibility, (continued)
- Re: Network visibility Gerry Boudreaux (Oct 21)
- RE: Network visibility bzs (Oct 21)
- Re: Network visibility Miles Fidelman (Oct 21)
- RE: Network visibility bzs (Oct 21)
- Re: Network visibility Owen DeLong via NANOG (Oct 20)
- Re: Network visibility Mel Beckman (Oct 20)
- Re: Network visibility Jay Hennigan (Oct 20)
- Re: Network visibility Miles Fidelman (Oct 20)
- Re: Network visibility Owen DeLong via NANOG (Oct 21)
- Re: Network visibility Mel Beckman (Oct 21)
- Re: Network visibility Owen DeLong via NANOG (Oct 21)
- Re: Network visibility Miles Fidelman (Oct 21)
- Re: Network visibility Mel Beckman (Oct 21)
- Re: Network visibility Jay R. Ashworth (Oct 21)
- Re: Network visibility Patrick W. Gilmore (Oct 22)
- Re: Network visibility Miles Fidelman (Oct 22)
- Re: Network visibility bzs (Oct 21)
- Re: Network visibility Michael Thomas (Oct 20)
- Re: Network visibility Mel Beckman (Oct 20)
- Re: Network visibility Miles Fidelman (Oct 20)
- RE: Network visibility Kain, Becki (.) (Oct 20)