Re: Viable Third Option?

[Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke () gmail com>]

In the context of Montreal, to clarify, when you say Zayo are you referring
to Zayo Canada (former AT&T Canada/MTS-Allstream), or AS6461, the original
Abovenet AS which is Zayo USA's IP transit network?


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 11:17 AM Eric Dugas via NANOG <nanog () nanog org>
wrote:

> The details you mentioned about Cogent and HE are still right.
>
> I'm managing an eyeball network and have Cogent in our blend but I also
> have three other Tier1s and VERY extensive peering (public and private). We
> have (from the cheapest to most expensive) Cogent, Telia, Zayo and Tata. I
> have to mention that we're based in Montreal so less choices compared to
> your market. The only two other Tier1s available in Montrea is GTT and
> Lumen/CL/Level3.
>
> Cogent: difficult relations, good service overall
> Telia: excellent relations, good service overall
> Tata: good relations, good service overall
> Zayo: difficult relations, good service overall
>
> Eric
>
> On Feb 17 2021, at 1:49 pm, Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote:
>
> This is from the perspective of an eyeball network. I understand that
> content networks would have different objectives and reasons. For instance,
> I have little to no reason as an eyeball network to exchange traffic with
> any other eyeball network (aside from P2P games). For a content network,
> getting into the eyeball networks is their objective.
>
> My crystal ball tells me this thread will spiral out of control because
> people won't be able to keep it on topic, but it is a question that I hear
> VERY often. I also expect a lot of purely bad or outdated information to
> get thrown out.
>
> Please try to keep it on topic and not being pedantic over relatively
> unimportant details.
>
> There are two major low-cost providers, Cogent and HE.
>
> Cogent
>
>    - Refuses to peer IPv6 with HE
>    - Refuses to peer IPv6 with Google
>    - Aggressive sales tactics
>
> Hurricane
>
>    - Doesn't have Cogent IPv6 because of Cogent's refusal
>    - Lack of communities for anything other than blackholes
>
>
> I know there are a variety of other providers such as Fusion Network that
> operate at similar price points, but are available in way fewer locations.
>
> What else is out there? Anyone else that isn't 5x, 10x the cost?
>
> Cogent and HE get looked down upon (and sometimes deservedly so), but when
> I talk to someone trying to sell me a port in 350 Cermak for 8x the cost of
> Cogent and HE, you better have a very good argument for why you're worth
> it...  and they never do. "We're not Cogent." "and?" Many times I'm quoted
> transit that costs more than Cogent + IX + HE and they don't really have a
> good argument for it.
>
> As an eyeball, I join an IX and there goes 50% - 85% of my traffic and
> almost all of my traffic that anyone is going to notice or complain about
> if there are issues (video streaming).
>
> I do understand that enterprise eyeballs may have different requirements.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>