nanog mailing list archives
Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid,
From: Joe Greco <jgreco () ns sol net>
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:59:23 -0500 (CDT)
On Sep 16, 2010, at 12:15 AM, George Bonser wrote:I believe a network should be able to sell priotitization at the edge, but not in the core. I have no problem with Y!, for example, paying a network to be prioritized ahead of bit torrent on the segment to the =enduser but I do have a problem with networks selling prioritized access through the core as that only gives an incentive to congest the =networkto create revenue.<end user> I DO have a problem with a content provider paying to get priority = access on the last mile. I have no particular interest in any of the = content that Yahoo provides, but I do have an interest in downloading my = Linux updates via torrents. Should I have to go back and bid against = Yahoo just so I can get my packets in a timely fashion? </end user> I understand that the last mile is going to be a congestion point, but = the idea of allowing a bidding war for priority access for that capacity = seems to be a path to madness.
Well, that's really the whole problem here. All of the serious "paid priority access" schemes appear to exist to try to squeeze money out of the other end of the connection. You, as a consumer, are already paying your ISP for the privilege of connecting to the Internet. It shouldn't be your ISP's role to determine what your intended use of that connection is. If you're using it for VoIP and videoconferencing, you gain no benefit from Yahoo!(*) paying for "priority" access. If you use it for VPN into your employer's corporate network, there's no advantage to Netflix(*) shoving your packets aside for theirs. If you use it for torrents for your FreeBSD updates, etc... [requoting a bit of the above]
I have no problem with Y!, for example, paying a network to be prioritized ahead of bit torrent on the segment to the end user
I *do* see a problem with prioritizing traffic type A ahead of traffic type B. If I'm your customer and you've sold me a 15M/2M circuit, maybe I plan to use that to access my employer's network via VPN. Now you want to declare my traffic "unworthy" because Yahoo!(*) has paid extra for "priority"? So I get "leftovers"? On one hand, we all recognize oversubscription as an issue. As an industry, service providers have worked hard to avoid committing to any particular service level, especially for end-user products like cable and DSL. The usual reasoning is that there's no way to guarantee it once it leaves their network. However, on the other hand, no attempt is made to guarantee it even on their network. What prevents a service provider from saying "We're selling you a 15M/2M circuit, and we guarantee that we've got sufficient capacity to consistently deliver at least 4M/512K through our network and to our peers/upstreams?" If all my neighbors suddenly decide one day to watch YouTube(*) due to some major event, and YouTube(*) has paid for priority access, and my 15M circuit suddenly drops to a few tens of kilobits because everyone else on this leg is competing for bandwidth, and there's more prioritized traffic than the leg can handle, how is that in any way a benefit to the consumer? There are some real risks associated with paid prioritization. Put it a different way: [restating the above] "I have no problem with ${a major drug manufacturer}, for example, paying my doctor to prescribe their products instead of their competitor's, even where the competitor's product might be a better fit for my medical needs." Now, really, just think about that for a little while. (*) All companies listed are just used as hypothetical examples, and should not be considered as anything more than that. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net "We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again." - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.
Current thread:
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic?, (continued)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Bruce Williams (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Barry Shein (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Steven Bellovin (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Bill Stewart (Sep 17)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Bill Stewart (Sep 17)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Steven Bellovin (Sep 19)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? William Allen Simpson (Sep 14)
- RE: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? gordon b slater (Sep 15)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Chris Boyd (Sep 16)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Joe Greco (Sep 16)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Valdis . Kletnieks (Sep 16)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, William Herrin (Sep 16)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Tony Varriale (Sep 18)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Joe Greco (Sep 18)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Tony Varriale (Sep 18)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Michael Painter (Sep 18)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Joe Greco (Sep 20)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, JC Dill (Sep 20)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Owen DeLong (Sep 20)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Joe Greco (Sep 20)