nanog mailing list archives
Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic?
From: Steven Bellovin <smb () cs columbia edu>
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 21:51:45 -0400
On Sep 14, 2010, at 9:30 32PM, Barry Shein wrote:
On September 14, 2010 at 00:49 williams.bruce () gmail com (Bruce Williams) wrote:And what does this "appeal to the ancient wisdom" have to do with technology and business today anyway?The article claimed that AT&T is claiming (to the FCC I think it was) that net non-neutrality was an early design goal of the internet, so they should be allowed to do whatever it is they want to do. Well, of course it was, only big research sites got IMPs with real 56k connections. Little guys like Apple, e.g., had to live on X.25 links from CSNET. BU was hooked up for a while via a 9600bps "cypress" link (a Vax 11/725* later Sun3/50 imp-a-like, via a serial port.) And we won't even talk about who got /8s. AT&T got 2 if I remember right though that company had no relationship to this AT&T which is just a rename of SBC after they bought some AT&T assets which owned the original trademark which is kind of like the old "if my grandmother had wheels they'd call her a trolley car" but I digress.
No, they bought AT&T, which had an ISP business, a long distance business, a private line business, and AT&T Labs, as well as other miscellaneous pieces like the brand name. We can wonder if AT&T would have survived as an independent company, but it was a going concern and not in bankruptcy at the time of the transaction. But yes, SBC is the controlling piece of the new AT&T. As for the two /8s -- not quite. Back in the 1980s, AT&T got 12/8. We soon learned that we couldn't make good use of it, since multiple levels of subnetting didn't exist. We offered it back to Postel in exchange for 135/8 -- i.e., the equivalent in class B space -- but Postel said to keep 12/8 since no one else could use it, either. This was all long before addresses were tight. When AT&T decided to go into the ISP business, circa 1995, 12/8 was still lying around, unused except for a security experiment I was running.* However, a good chunk of 135/8 went to Lucent (now Alcatel-Lucent) in 1996, though I don't know how much. --Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb *The early sequence number guessing attack tools required a dead host that would be impersonated by the attacker. By chance, one of the early tools used something in 12/8. I started announcing it from Murray Hill, to catch the back-scatter from the victims. We found some of that; we also found lots of folks who were using 12/8 themselves, probably internally.
Current thread:
- RE: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic?, (continued)
- RE: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Nathan Eisenberg (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Dave Sparro (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Owen DeLong (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Barry Shein (Sep 13)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Barry Shein (Sep 13)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Sean Donelan (Sep 13)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Michael Dillon (Sep 13)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Fred Baker (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Bruce Williams (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Barry Shein (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Steven Bellovin (Sep 14)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Bill Stewart (Sep 17)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Bill Stewart (Sep 17)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Steven Bellovin (Sep 19)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Sean Donelan (Sep 13)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? William Allen Simpson (Sep 14)
- RE: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? gordon b slater (Sep 15)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Prioritized Traffic? Chris Boyd (Sep 16)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Joe Greco (Sep 16)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, Valdis . Kletnieks (Sep 16)
- Re: Did Internet Founders Actually Anticipate Paid, William Herrin (Sep 16)