nanog mailing list archives
Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator
From: David Lesher <wb8foz () nrk com>
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2003 21:26:25 -0500 (EST)
A) Piped natural gas is highly reliable here in the East. I've not had such in 10+ years. An even-momentary outage is cause for great alarm (and media coverage) since they can't restart the line without visiting every residence, closing the shutoff, only then re-starting the line, and visiting every residence to re-light pilots, & run a nose-check. (Dirty little secret of old black steel lines is they rust from the inside; but then don't leak much since the line pressure holds the flakes in place. But drop line pressure, they deflake and it's swiss cheese when restarted.) I infer the req'd earthquake valves in Califunny also close on line pressure failure; so you can restore the line without a shutdown visit first? B) I know of no good way to store natural gas on-site. The utility typically uses an underground cavern that was a salt dome and hollowed out with lotsa H2O. Compressing gas locally is even less likely; it takes real KW to run the compressor station, as well as a safety zone surrounding. C) Yes, you CAN store propane, a different product. But if you need a lot of fuel, errr. A big propane tank is 300 gallons. I suspect the Fire Marshall will take intense interest in storage near a building of any size, much less in. Propane is heavier than air. Some codes ban its use in a basement without positive ventilation, gas detectors etc. D) Diesel engines, err Diesel-fueled piston engines, be they 2 or 4-cycle, need frequent oil changes. I have every reason to think natural gas/propane fuel would require same less often; the washdown of such will evaporate out unlike #2 diesel. But I've been wrong before. E) There are "dual fuel" diesel engines; maybe several kinds. I've read of the ones at sewage plants that suck ...methane vapor... from the digester tanks; not only is it "free" but the stink burns with it. There are also natgas/propane/gasoline generators in the ~10KW size, but that's spark ignition. By the ways: 1) "We don't mind dumb questions; they're easier to handle than dumb mistakes.." is the sign on a friend's machine shop. I applaud the OP for being willing to ask. 2) At least pre-Ashcroft, the cops need a warrant, or probable cause, to haul you off. At least in most states, the Fire Marshall does not. He can show up unannounced, throw you out, pull the main breakers and shut all the fuel valves. He leaves a red tag on the door and you are out of business. Especially post 7 WTC and West Warwick; I'd not expect lots of latitude from your local/state fire inspector. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz () nrk com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Current thread:
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator, (continued)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Leo Bicknell (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Bill Woodcock (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Robert Boyle (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Bill Woodcock (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Robert Boyle (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Timo Janhunen (Apr 04)
- Re[2]: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Richard Welty (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Stephen Sprunk (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Daniel Senie (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Bill Woodcock (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator David Lesher (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator David Lesher (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Brian Wallingford (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator E.B. Dreger (Apr 05)
- Re[2]: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Richard Welty (Apr 05)
- RE: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Timo Janhunen (Apr 04)
- RE: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Bill Woodcock (Apr 04)
- RE: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Dan Hollis (Apr 04)
- RE: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Timo Janhunen (Apr 04)
- RE: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator Eric Germann (Apr 04)
- Re: Looking for advice on datacenter electrical/generator JC Dill (Apr 05)