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Re: DPI and my testimony to Congress today
From: David Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2008 21:51:16 -0700
________________________________________ From: Gerry Faulhaber [gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:10 PM To: David P. Reed; David Farber Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] DPI and my testimony to Congress today A rather cheesy note, David R. While I disagree with you, I didn't call you a "sociopath" (or any number of names that might fit the occasion). Nor did I disparage your profession. And how could you possibly construe my note to mean that I think CEOs *should* spy on customers? Nowhere in the note is there anything close to this, and you know it, David. Is attempting to smear others the way you conduct discourse? If so, do you think you are acting ethically? Of course we have ethics, and many businesses follow ethical principles. However, I'm pretty sure that some businesses do not see DPI as an ethical issue, even though you do. Of course if enough customers believe DPI is unethical and are therefore more likely to switch to a carrier that commits not to do it, or you implement encryption, then DPI is a bad business strategy and firms will eschew it. My point is simply that you cannot count on others sharing your view of what is right and wrong, ethical or not, and acting the way you thinik they ought to act. If you think they are behaving badly, encrypt or get a law passed. Gerry Faulhaber ----- Original Message ----- From: "David P. Reed" <dpreed () reed com> To: <dave () farber net> Cc: "ip" <ip () v2 listbox com>; "Gerry Faulhaber" <gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [IP] DPI and my testimony to Congress today
Gerry - the idea that the law is the only limit to behavior may be how you think. I grew up in a world where people considered their impact on others without needing a law. I open the door for other people without being required to. When I was a vice president at Lotus, I made business decisions with ethics in mind as well as the law. I treated my employees well because I thought it was the right thing to do. It sounds like you think differently. I hesitate to use the word, but the definition of a person who does everything he or she is not forcibly prevented from doing is a "sociopath". Are you advocating sociopathic behavior when you say CEOs *should* spy on their customers' traffic and modify packets merely because it is not against the law? If so, I can understand why people hate economists and CEOs. - David David Farber wrote:________________________________________ From: Gerry Faulhaber [gerry-faulhaber () mchsi com] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 11:00 AM To: David Farber Subject: Re: [IP] DPI and my testimony to Congress today [for IP, if you wish] Well, DJF, I don't agree with DRP. Here's why: In any commercial transaction (buying a car, haircut, or ISP services), parties are limited by the law, regulation, and the contract/terms of service. Anything else is fair game; people can do what they want. Disclosure will occur if there are regulations/ToS requiring it; otherwise, it will be as the market dictates. Are there regulations regarding, say, US mail privacy? Yes; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrecy_of_correspondence . However, this has recently been under attack. How about FedEx? Can't find anything on this topic, so I would assume no. E-mail privacy? I think we all know the answer to that: NO. Telephone privacy? Yes, as a matter of regulation/law, except of course with wiretaps. Is there a law/regulation against DPI? No? Well, then, expect it. This is way different that "applaud [ing] criminals who rob people in dangerous parts of the city"; robbing people is illegal; but as far as I know, DPI isn't. Now maybe DPI is not a good long-run business strategy, and maybe people will demand privacy guarantees as part of the service. But I haven't seen that happen yet in the online world (e.g., e-mail). So, yes, by all means protect yourself: e-mail, DPI, even FedEx if you think it necessary. Professor Gerry Faulhaber Wharton School, Penn Law ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Farber" <dave () farber net> To: "ip" <ip () v2 listbox com> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 8:30 AM Subject: [IP] DPI and my testimony to Congress today Gads I agree with David djf ________________________________________ From: David P. Reed [dpreed () reed com] Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 7:31 AM To: David Farber Cc: ip Subject: Re: [IP] Re: DPI and my testimony to Congress today I find the ensuing discussion enlightening. Without mentioning names (you all know who they are) the justification of DPI is that: a) people are fools for not encrypting their traffic. I suppose customers of FedEx are fools for not enclosing their shipped goods in welded shut titanium boxes that will explode if x-rayed. b) I'm good but they are bad. These two themes seem intended to distract from the fact that ISPs are trialing technology explicitly designed to scan all traffic. The arguments of people replying seems to be that bad behavior is *justified* by the ability to do it. I'm tempted to wonder whether they applaud criminals who rob people in dangerous parts of the city. Or people who photograph their neighbors through open windows. ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
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- DPI and my testimony to Congress today David Farber (Jul 17)
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- Re: DPI and my testimony to Congress today David Farber (Jul 17)
- Re: DPI and my testimony to Congress today David Farber (Jul 18)
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- DPI and my testimony to Congress today David Farber (Jul 18)
- Re: DPI and my testimony to Congress today David Farber (Jul 18)
- Re: DPI and my testimony to Congress today David Farber (Jul 18)