funsec mailing list archives
Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID
From: "Dr. Neal Krawetz" <hf () hackerfactor com>
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:12:21 -0700 (MST)
On Sat Dec 16 11:16:06 2006, David Lodge wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 02:30:40 -0000, Dude Van Winkle <DudeVanWinkle () gmail com> wrote:I dont understand the big deal about a national id card. We already have drivers licenses and social security cards, Military IDs, College/School ID's, Work Badges, and Passports, so whats the big deal about adding a standard, especially if we can do away with the need for even two of the others (which I admit will probably not happen of course, buts its nice to dream eh?)The major problem is that ID gets abused - and rather than ask for equivalent ID for a purpose, a generic global ID is requested, meaning closer monitoring by people who shouldn't have any right to monitor an individual (e.g. banks, supermarkets).
[snip] Dave, Excellent rant, I fully agree, and I could not have said it any better. I find it interesting the number of places that want to see ID, but have no idea what they are looking for or looking at. Some examples: - When I first moved to Colorado, I opened a bank account. They needed to see my Illinois driver's license. The problems here: (1) The banker had never seen an Illinois driver's license before, and would never be able to tell if it was real or fake. (I had to point out the driver's license number on it since he didn't know where to look.) (2) They did not ask me to remove it from my wallet. You can buy fake IDs for any state. The front looks correct, but the back says it is a fake ID for entertainment purposes only. Even if the banker knew what a real Illinois driver's license looked like, they never checked the back so it might have been fake. The basic mentality seems to be: Picture looks like me + name is right = must be real. (QED) - My credit card says "not valid without photo ID". I am rarely asked to provide ID. One time, the gal at Home Depot asked me. I pulled out a 1"x1" baby picture of my nephew. She smiled and continued the transaction. It was an identifying photo, just not of me. - When getting my passport, I needed to provide proof of citizenship. I provided my real birth certificate. The problem is, nothing on that birth certificate looks like me. There is no photo, the name and personal info was valid, but nothing says it is me (no fingerprint, etc.). They took my passport picture and the passport arrived a few weeks later. It's a real passport, but no proof that the original information really was me beyond ownership of the real birth certificate. (And since the birth certificate is more than 30 years old, I really think I could have made a fake one on my printer.) - Speaking of making fake IDs... When my Dad first got a photo printer, he had lots of fun. He printed up "employer ID cards" for my company (Hacker Factor) and his company. Post-9/11, these ID cards were accepted at everywhere from conferences and hotels to airports. They are official looking photo-IDs with real signatures. (The only place that had a problem was Frontier Airlines -- and that was because the cards were laminated.) No problem -- I have a driver's license (that may be removed from the wallet, but nobody every flips it over to see if it is real). NOTE: There is no crime (to my knowledge) of showing a company ID card at an airport. If they decline that ID, I have other -- government issued -- IDs that I can provide. - A friend had her wallet stolen a few months back. She lost her driver's license, credit cards, etc. It turns out, in order to get a driver's license (or state ID card) in Colorado, you need to provide two forms of government ID. She has neither (since her license was stolen). And other forms of government ID cannot be acquired without a driver's license or state ID card. She just had a judge rule that she is who she is so she can try to get a driver's license. My friend is not the only person with problems getting a Colorado driver's license. Many other cases have been documented: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5210252,00.html http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5218587,00.html (I like the part about a valid Texas driver's license not being good enough for Colorado.) The problems with the lack of understanding around IDs is worse for foreign visitors. A coworker needed to update his Visa so he could go on a business trip to Asia. Get this: he needed to go from Colorado to Washington (state) to get a Visa for Canada. He then went to Canada so he could go to the American consolate to get an updated US Visa. With his updated US Visa, he then went to the Asian consolate in Denver for the travel Visa. My reply: WTF! Why does he need to leave the USA in order to update his USA Visa? What validation information exists for USA Visas outside of the USA that does not exist inside the USA? Right now, I consider all forms of ID (in the United States) to be like those Jokers in a deck of cards; they seem valuable, but nobody really knows how to use them. http://www.gamesandprint.co.uk/Cards/Jumbo/joker.jpg -Neal -- Neal Krawetz, Ph.D. Hacker Factor Solutions http://www.hackerfactor.com/ Author of "Introduction to Network Security" (Charles River Media, 2006) and "Hacking Ubuntu" (Wiley, 2007) _______________________________________________ privacy mailing list privacy () whitestar linuxbox org http://www.whitestar.linuxbox.org/mailman/listinfo/privacy
Current thread:
- [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Card Law Fergie (Dec 13)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Card Law Dude Van Winkle (Dec 14)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Card Law Drsolly (Dec 15)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Card Law Dennis Henderson (Dec 15)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Card Law Drsolly (Dec 15)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Card Law Brian Loe (Dec 15)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Card Law Drsolly (Dec 15)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Card Law Dude Van Winkle (Dec 14)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Card Law David Lodge (Dec 16)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Dr. Neal Krawetz (Dec 17)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Dennis Henderson (Dec 18)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Dr. Neal Krawetz (Dec 18)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Dennis Henderson (Dec 19)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID David Lodge (Dec 19)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Dennis Henderson (Dec 19)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Dude Van Winkle (Dec 19)
- Re: [privacy] U.S. Senators Propose Repeal of National ID Valdis . Kletnieks (Dec 20)