Re: Apple Safari ... DoS Vulnerability

[Chris Evans <scarybeasts () gmail com>]

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:00 AM, Nick FitzGerald
<nick () virus-l demon co uk> wrote:
> Michal Zalewski to me:
>
> > > But what if www.evil.com has run an injection attack of some kind (SQL,
> > > XSS in blog comments, etc, etc) against www.stupid.com?
> > >
> > > Visitors to stupid.com then suffer a DoS...
> >
> > In such a case, the attacker may just as well clobber body.innerHTML,
> > run a while (1) loop, or otherwise logically deny or alter service to
> > visitors without actually exploiting any specific bug ...
>
> So?
>
> > ... - so I do not
> > see any significant benefit to killing this particular tab.
>
> Where in any usable definition of "denial of service" does the word
> "useful" or concept of "benefit" appear?
>
> The question was, is it a DoS.
>
> It is.

By this definition of yours, DoS is fundamentally built in to browsers
(by way of simply following specifications) -- even those with decent
privsep models.

Web security IS fundamentally broken at the foundations, so I'm not
going to disagree with you.

It raises the question: DoS is an overloaded term, perhaps it should
be reserved for cases that actually have real-world significance? Or
is a new term required?

Cheers
Chris

> > Crashing / hanging the entire browser is somewhat different, as it
> > bears some risk of data loss in plausible usage scenarios.
> > Unfortunately, most implementations do very little to prevent cases
> > that were permitted by standards in the first place (things such as
> > "while (1) str += str", "while (1) alert('foo')", looped blocking
> > XMLHttpRequest calls, ridiculously nested XML and other
> > expensive-to-render content, etc) - which makes finding new instances
> > somewhat futile and pointless, and a result, somewhat frowned upon on
> > security mailing lists (ugh).
>
> I agree, but I was not addressing that.
>
> Is it useful?  Probably not.
>
> But it's still a DoS...
>
> And, will the Safari folk find something more important to fix if/when
> they look into it?
>
> Who knows but it won't hurt for them to look...
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Nick FitzGerald
>
>
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