Full Disclosure mailing list archives
Re: Script Kiddies vs. Security Kiddies
From: "Andy Cuff" <offthecuff () lineone net>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:26:49 -0000
Hi, It's been a long day and I don't normally bite but I will Some talk about script kiddies in a derogative way, but still have to admit that they are a threat. (ask Steve Gibson ;o) I'd prefer to get on my soapbox about those individuals on the other side of the fence in the security world, those that are driven to their positions by the chance of financial gain rather than the passion for the job. I hold them in far lower regard than anyone else, even my mother in law. Whichever side of the fence you sit on; black, white or grey, the passion for what you do should be held in at least equal regard to how good you are at doing it. respect the passion; security or script kiddies. -andy Talisker Security Tools Directory http://www.securitywizardry.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "ktabic" <hh () ktabic co uk> To: <full-disclosure () lists netsys com> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Script Kiddies [OT]
Well, I know you should feed the trolls, but anyway... On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 16:23, Uncle Scrotora Balzac wrote:I love hearing security people talk about script kiddies. It's the
funniest
thing to see them walking around with their chests pushed out like
peacocks,
as they scoff the silly little kiddy.Script Kiddie, usually used on this list to refer to a certain set of what could be termed as Blackhats. I sure that most Blackhats however, would be insulted by being included in the same group as Script Kiddies.Funny because 99.9 percent of the people using the term so loosely have no idea how to *really* find vulnerabilities in systems, compromise, gain control, hide their presence, then use it for whatever they want. Hell, a significant percent of those "security
[engineers/professionals/consultants/researchers]"
(circle one) have trouble compiling exploits (if they even know where to find them in the first place), much less figure out offsets, return addresses, etc.. The same exploits those "kiddies" use!! What these
people
don't realize is that the "kiddies" they so affectionately refer to have learned this practice by reading comments, headers, and cryptic help messages in code and scripts. Not by completely out-of-touch and
wickedly
outdated texts like their CISSP study guides, vendor whitepapers, and books by aging whitehat hackers. Irony.Well, from my experience, and time lurking on several IRC channels and a couple of Yahoo chatrooms, 'cause I'm bored and need entertaining, most Script Kiddies wouldn't know a compiler if it jumped up, bit them on the arse and shouted 'I'm a compiler! Compile a program with me!!' let alone know the theory behind a buffer overflow, or even do basic hexidecimal arthmetic. Sadly, all I have even seen is the trade of canned exploits, you know, the ready made executables. There probably are some advanced Script Kiddies out there, that might e able to take an exploit in source code form and make a working exploit, and I've even seen some modified exploits, that might have been the work of Script Kiddies, but I doubt it. You see, the reason a Script Kiddie is called a Script Kiddie, isn't because they can or can't write exploits, but rather they don't understand the basics of target selection, so run their exploits againist every single machine they can. Usually using a script. Hence SCRIPT Kiddie. The only reason the Script Kiddes are even considored a hazard on the 'Net is because of the number of machines they hit, not their technical ability, which, as I pointed out, is pretty much non-exsistant. And it always seems to be to build a botnet. Or a warez server. Maybe the ability to run a program and use and IRC client so you can control the botnet is technically skilled for you, but for most of the readers of this list, thats something they could do while rebooting the mail server, clearing three people computers of viruses, advising the non-IT geek on hardware, and showing the new member of staff how to log on and where Word is and persuading the boss to part with money for the next round of upgrades, while simutaneously reading Full-Disclosure and wondering why the hell they didn't decide on a careers as a sheep farmer in the Australian Outback. Those Blackhats I have talked to that I don't lump in with Script Kiddies, have always thought that being indescriminate in the target selection stage was a waste, and that a DDOS wasn't the aim. ktabic -- www.ktabic.co.uk Many sysadmins won't give you the time of day. Thats what NTP is for. _______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
_______________________________________________ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
Current thread:
- Script Kiddies Uncle Scrotora Balzac (Jan 30)
- Re: Script Kiddies [OT] ktabic (Jan 30)
- Re: Script Kiddies [OT] ktabic (Jan 30)
- Re: Script Kiddies [OT] vuln (Jan 30)
- Re: Script Kiddies vs. Security Kiddies Andy Cuff (Jan 30)
- Re: Script Kiddies Andy Cuff (Jan 30)
- <Possible follow-ups>
- Re: Script Kiddies mike king (Jan 30)
- Re: Script Kiddies darren (Jan 31)
- Re: Re: Script Kiddies ATD (Jan 31)
- RE: Script Kiddies DAN MORRILL (Jan 31)