RE: [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm

["JT" <ptourvi1 () twcny rr com>]

I don't quite understand here. A user generally has WAY more options/ways to
make a mistake interacting with Zone Alarm vs say, a Linksys firewall. Yes,
the user will not know how to flash it, and will not stay up to date with
any updates, but that's our job anyways. IMHO any auto update feature is a
problem waiting to happen, which leads you back to having to do/provide the
update yourself anyways. I understand not all PFWs work like ZA though too,
but that is the PFW of choice among end users it seems. Does anyone have any
experience using the Linksys WITH Zone Alarm, does it provide any features
that either product on their own do not? Thanks for any info.

JT

-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com
[mailto:full-disclosure-admin () lists netsys com] On Behalf Of Schmehl, Paul L
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:29 PM
To: Robert J. Liebsch
Cc: full-disclosure () lists netsys com
Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm


If you understand security, using Outlook/Exchange is not dangerous.  If
it makes you feel better, I can respond from my RedHat box or my OpenBSD
box or my FreeBSD box.  Frankly, I don't really give a rats a$$.  I use
what's handy at the time.  They're just tools, and I'm not religious
about them.

I'm already on record as saying that I *prefer* a DSL router or "true"
firewall.  I'm just trying to make the point that *for some people* PFWs
are better, because they're simple to use and understand and they're
certainly better than nothing, which is what they'll have if you try to
get them to use more sophisticated tools.  Hell, some of our users still
struggle trying to figure out how a mouse works.  I just tell them,
don't ask me to master physics and I won't ask you to master computers.
They're just tools to do work.

Paul Schmehl (pauls () utdallas edu)
Adjunct Information Security Officer
The University of Texas at Dallas
AVIEN Founding Member
http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert J. Liebsch [mailto:rliebsch () stoneyamashita com] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 8:57 PM
To: Schmehl, Paul L
Cc: full-disclosure () lists netsys com
Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm


worse than HTML email... Exchange 
*eep* 
I have mixed emotions about making ppl understand security. Users are
rather stupid by nature. 
Otherwise, I wouldn't have a job. 
I think however, having them use the software and equipment, making
natural, and letting them 
watch the news and read the magazines, and talk to the clients about
"oh, that worm/virus/hack, 
didn't affect us. 
I cannot make users understand why they need to change passwords. They
argue and whine and 
cry alot, but they do change those passwords. 
My wife, my family are not tech savvy folks. But they humor me and they
take precautions, then 
they patiently listen to their friends and collegues complain about
virii, ftp and irc servers they were 
unwittingly running on thier systems. Then I get to overhear my family
say things like "well why don't 
you have a Router/Firewall thingy... it works for me" 
9out of 10, that silly little NAT on the linksys is enough to ward off
penetrations to home computers, for 
home manual non-reading users. 
Ferrari?!? Um, need a son, or another admin... I don't even own a car
*grin* 



---------- 
From:   Schmehl, Paul L 
Sent:   Wednesday, June 4, 2003 6:44 PM 
To:     Robert J. Liebsch; Michael Reilly; Kurt Seifried 
Cc:     Ben Tyson-Norrman; full-disclosure () lists netsys com 
Subject:        RE: [Full-disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Robert J. Liebsch [mailto:rliebsch () stoneyamashita com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:45 PM 
> To: Michael Reilly; Schmehl, Paul L; Kurt Seifried 
> Cc: Ben Tyson-Norrman; full-disclosure () lists netsys com 
> Subject: RE: [Full-disclosure] [OFFTOPIC] Zone Alarm 
>
>
> I have on asbestos underwear, so I am prepared for your flames...  
You should be, since you're using HTML email. :-) 
> However, Because security is inconvenient does not make it 
> irrelevant. You do have your car serviced? You do go see a 
> doctor regularly? You do perform maintenance to your home? 
>   ....don't you? 
Yes, but I don't expect my 20 year old daughter to jump in my Ferrari 
and drive it safely either.  She drives the Honda Civic, and after she's

got some experience under her belt and has gone to driving school *then*

I'll consider giving her the keys to the Ferrari. 
I'd rather have an inexperienced user behind a PFW any day than expect 
them to understand and *properly* implement NAT *and* a firewall.  I'd 
rather have them introduced to the concept of security in a way that 
they understand than to shove it down their throats with technology they

don't comprehend and can't possibly use correctly. 
Paul Schmehl (pauls () utdallas edu) 
Adjunct Information Security Officer 
The University of Texas at Dallas 
AVIEN Founding Member 
http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/ 
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Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html