RE: advice

[Joey Peloquin <jpelo1 () jcpenney com>]

->In my opinion; if you have acheived an MCSE alone it is a 
->foundation certificate to prove you can learn and have 
->learnt. Once this is coupled with practical experienced, and 

All due respect, Nat...

IMO, the MCSE has not been a credible certification demonstrating anything
other than a person can memorize questions and answers since the formation
of cramsession.com, et al.

Certainly there are people that actually _learn_ the material, but I'll be
d*mned if I ever get to work with them.  80% or more of the MCSEs I have
known couldn't resolve an incident if their life depended on it.

List archives are full of trivial questions from these MCSEs, who could have
found their own answers, if they knew how to utilize the wealth of resources
on the 'net for anything other than finding the latest and greatest
braindump.

Joey Peloquin

->-----Original Message-----
->From: Nat.Hague () omigroup com [mailto:Nat.Hague () omigroup com] 
->Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 4:39 AM
->To: JMclaughlin () springsgov com; ikampa () enst fr; 
->security-basics () securityfocus com
->Subject: RE: advice
->
->
->In my opinion; if you have acheived an MCSE alone it is a 
->foundation certificate to prove you can learn and have 
->learnt. Once this is coupled with practical experienced, and 
->another certification it shows a good understanding of your 
->trade. The same could be said for any single certification. 
->As you do not expand on why you do not like MCSE It is 
->difficult to argue a case, however; as the MCSE is so widely 
->accepted, and successful, and as you seem to have a great 
->belief that you know it all, I would say do it. From my 
->personal experience I would say, if you are doing the job and 
->can 'apply learning' the exams are purely a formality. Couple 
->with any other certification, I would say it is a 'must' 
->unless you are a Linux guru and are marketing yourself 
->towards that platform.
->
->regards
->
->Nat
->
->-----Original Message-----
->From: Jeff McLaughlin [mailto:JMclaughlin () springsgov com]
->Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 10:13 PM
->To: 'John Kampanellis'; security-basics () securityfocus com
->Subject: RE: advice
->
->
->IMHO,
->
->Network Security will rely on your ability to be proficient 
->in many disciplines. To secure your network it is very 
->helpful to understand what is running on it and how it runs 
->on it.  Network security crosses all boundaries and being 
->effective means you have a working knowledge of networks and 
->the apps/OS that run on them.  You need breadth as well as depth.  
->
->Understand that although helpful, it is not a good idea to 
->learn the material with the goal of just passing a test.  
->Your goal should be a through knowledge of the subject which 
->should allow you to then pass the test.
->
->
->A certification process you could follow could be.
->
->To demonstrate you understand the network environment.
->CCNA (Network), MCP-Windows 2000 Server & Networks (OS), 
->Linux+ or other linux cert(OS), Security+ (or other basic 
->type security cert)
->
->To demonstrate you have depth.
->CCNP or CCSP, MCSE or MCSP, CISSP (or other mid-level security cert), 
->
->To be an  "expert"
->
->CCIE, RHSE, multiple certs in apps database, programming.
->
->HTH,
->Jeff McLaughlin
->MCSE,MCNE,CCNP,CSS,MCDBA,MCSD,Linux+,Infosec
->
->P.S.  I think I have a very good knowledge of networks 
->because of my MCSE certification.
->
->-----Original Message-----
->From: John Kampanellis [mailto:ikampa () enst fr] 
->Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 12:49 AM
->To: security-basics () securityfocus com
->Subject: advice
->
->Hi!
->
->I know my question has already been asked, but I think that 
->answers do not follow the rule one size fit all. What I would 
->like, is the chance to get as much as I can from the maturity 
->and experience of the people joinning this list.
->
->I come from Greece. I a holder of a diploma in Electrical and 
->Computer Engineering and I am about to finish my MSc in 
->System and Network Security, pursued in France. Considering, 
->that I am about to finish my internship, I have to thing what 
->to do next. I decided that a first step before entering the 
->market, could be to get a certificate. But which one? 
->
->I am pationned with security and and I am very intersted in 
->networks. My opinion is that  being successful in the 
->security domain, requires from someone to have a very good 
->knowedge of networks and systems.So my questions are  the following:
->
->1)Should I get a certificate in networks , i.e. CCNA? 
->Since I have an MSc in security may be being certified in 
->networking is better. I believe that I know 70% of what CCNA 
->covers. However, may a certificate may help me at the 
->beginning of my carreer.
->
->2)Should I get a ceritificate in security and in that case 
->which one? I know some of you would recommend me certificates 
->such as:GIAC, CISSP, CSSP. However, the problem is that I 
->don't thing there are centers in Greece where I can get the 
->exams. The only one for which I have found a exam center is 
->"Security Certified Program (SCP)". What is your opinion about?
->
->3)My third option (which I don't like so much) is a Microsoft 
->Certificate such as MSSE. I am asking you, even though I 
->don't like this option so much. I don't thing that people in 
->Microsoft have real good knowledge about networking or security.
->
->Thanks in advance,
->John
->
->
->
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