Security Basics mailing list archives
RE: tools used to examine a computer
From: "Robinson, Sonja" <SRobinson () HIPUSA com>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:18:28 -0500
In any event a BITSTREAM copy should be taken of any drive prior to analysis if that is possible. There are times when it is not. Harlan has some good points on processes, servies and the like. You want to document those before you take down a machine (workstation or server)anyway if you are able to. In the case of a server, you may not be able to take it down. In that case there are processes and analysis you can do without takin git down. Also, there are tools that CAN do bitsream copies on LIVE machines. That being said. If you can't take it down and you want to copy across a network you can do that. It does not destroy chain of custody (which is the term we should be using) and you are not corrupting your evidence. You may change an access date (I did not test this and don't have time at the moment) but you still have your modification and creation dates which won't change. In addition if you are following proper forensic procedures, all of this should be documented (incl date and time) so you can prove that you did the copy but it didn't modify. I've done it and it will hold up. Why would I copy an entire 100GB serve to get one 100MB user share? I could but you need to do a costbenefit analysis before you do. IE. Is what in free, swap and slack space potentially of enough interst to me to warrant that review since potentially that amount can be HUGE. A workstation can be different since I'm not sorting through other users stuff and I can basically attribute all or most of the files to a particular user based on profiles (assuming Windows OS). Key is proper FORENSIC PROCESSES are followed. If you can document and you are not touching MODIFY or CREATION dates then you are pretty much OK as long as you document properly.
-----Original Message----- From: Trevor Cushen [mailto:Trevor.Cushen () sysnet ie] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 12:35 PM To: security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: RE: tools used to examine a computer DD is not copying. Copying can change file properties as in MAC details on the new system or the destination. The MAC being changed is the problem. The original email I was answering didn't discuss documenting either or getting the MD5 signature. DD will give a bit by bit copy which will give the same MD5 signatures and is handy if the machine cannot be rebooted. The disk should be cloned before anything is done on the machine as in copying files or anything. The document I refered to gave a way of doing that and is accepted by law enforcement once you have the MD5 signature. Trevor Cushen Sysnet Ltd www.sysnet.ie Tel: +353 1 2983000 Fax: +353 1 2960499 -----Original Message----- From: H C [mailto:keydet89 () yahoo com] Sent: 18 February 2003 18:02 To: Trevor Cushen Cc: security-basics () securityfocus com Subject: RE: tools used to examine a computerAlso on the point of copying files over the network first, correct me if I'm wrong but that damages the chain of evidence.Now so? If one collects the necessary info (ie, MAC times, NTFS ADSs, permissions, full path, etc), hashes the file (MD5 and/or SHA-1), and then copies the file over the network using something like 'dd' or type, and netcat/cryptcat, how is the chain of evidence broken? Especially if it's documented?Have a look at the link below, goes about it a bit long winded but essentially shows how to clone a hard drive over a network connection. This can be done with Windows machines as DD and Netcat can be run from floppy on a Windows machine.I'm not sure what you're getting at...first you make a reference to breaking the chain of evidence by copying a file, but then you talk about cloning an os over the network using dd and netcat. Wouldn't doing so also break your chain of evidence, if your reasoning is to hold? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
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Current thread:
- re: tools used to examine a computer, (continued)
- re: tools used to examine a computer H C (Feb 17)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Trevor Cushen (Feb 18)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer H C (Feb 19)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Trevor Cushen (Feb 18)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Trevor Cushen (Feb 19)
- Checkpoint NG - SMTP Guard Features McKenzie Family (Feb 20)
- Re: Checkpoint NG - SMTP Guard Features Steve Suehring (Feb 20)
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- Re: Checkpoint NG - SMTP Guard Features Mel (Feb 20)
- Checkpoint NG - SMTP Guard Features McKenzie Family (Feb 20)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Trevor Cushen (Feb 20)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer H C (Feb 20)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Robinson, Sonja (Feb 20)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Trevor Cushen (Feb 20)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer H C (Feb 20)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Trevor Cushen (Feb 20)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer H C (Feb 20)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Trevor Cushen (Feb 22)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Robinson, Sonja (Feb 22)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Trevor Cushen (Feb 24)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer H C (Feb 25)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Tim V - DZ (Feb 25)
- RE: tools used to examine a computer Trevor Cushen (Feb 25)