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[WEB SECURITY] Re: [owaspdallas] Re: [WEB SECURITY] RE: How to stop hackers at the root cause
From: arian.evans at anachronic.com (Arian J. Evans)
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:39:51 -0700
You are absolutely right Paul. The problems with ignorance and abstinence-based approaches to child education extend out well beyond the Bible Belt, and can be found all over the US. I should have cast a wider net. Also, great job at ruining a good laugh. http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/abstinence07/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/18/AR2009031801597.html?hpid=topnews&sub=AR http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet/feature/2009/03/19/teen_birthrate/index.html http://dir.salon.com/topics/sex_education/ The point here is that while education is valuable -- *comprehensive* education is even more valuable. This is a loaded subject and people with belief-system drivers can get quite passionate about it. I'm not interested in a passionate discussion about this subject. I think the thread will turn into the tarpit of insanity if it goes further so I suggest we be done, --- Arian Evans On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Paul Schmehl <pschmehl_lists at tx.rr.com> wrote:
--On Tuesday, April 13, 2010 15:21:26 -0700 "Arian J. Evans" <arian.evans at anachronic.com> wrote:Keyboard Cowboy, Education is always a good thing. I think kids should have the opportunity to learn both sides of software security. Great suggestion. Kids, by nature, are drawn to things that are taboo and demonized. Which hacking no doubt falls into, and according to Daniel, also Angelina Jolie. We can find great analogies to the "hacker kids problem" in recent studies done on teenage behaviors: The Bible Belt, particularly evangelicals in the south, have the highest rates of teen sex and pregnancy in the US. Telling kids to "abstain" clearly doesn't work as well as teaching them how things work, and in particular careful education surrounding the use of safety devices. To the exact point you made in your blog.This is totally off topic, but I simply cannot let this slide. ?People like to throw out canards like this as if they are facts, and seldom are they ever questioned. First of all, your assertion isn't borne out by the data. ?Secondly, you've not cited a single study to back up your assertion, in particular the claim that the lack of sex education (which you assume occurs due to religious objections) is responsible for the claimed, but not factual, higher pregnancy rates. According to a study done by the Guttmacher Institute in 2000 [1] (The Guttmacher Institution is a pro-choice group that advocates for sex education), here are the state rankings by rates of pregnancy and rates of abortion 1) Nevada ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?4 2) Arizona ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?19 3) Mississippi ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?28 4) New Mexico ? ? ? ? ? ? ?18 5) Texas ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?26 6) Florida ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?7 7) California ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?5 8) Georgia ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 22 9) North Carolina ? ? ? ? 17 10) Arkansas ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 41 11) Delaware ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?8 12) Hawaii ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?6 Of the top twelve states, only half are what could be considered Bible Belt states, so I think you have to look elsewhere for your explanation of teen pregnancy rates. ?OTOH, it's pretty clear the Bible Belt states are significantly less likely to abort a teen pregnancy, which may or may not be an indicator of religious influence. ?(I'm not prepared to say it is without data to support it.) About.com also has statistics about teen birth rates [2], and their statistics don't bear out your assertion either. ?Their stats are based on the 2006 Guttmacher Institute report, and the rankings have changed very little. States ranked by rates of pregnancy among women age 15-19 (pregnancies per thousand): ?1. Nevada (113) ?2. Arizona (104) ?3. Mississippi (103) ?4. New Mexico (103) ?5. Texas (101) ?6. Florida (97) ?7. California (96) ?8. Georgia (95) ?9. North Carolina (95) ?10. Arkansas (93) States ranked by rates of live births among women age 15-19 (births per thousand): ?1. Mississippi (71) ?2. Texas (69) ?3. Arizona (67) ?4. Arkansas (66) ?5. New Mexico (66) ?6. Georgia (63) ?7. Louisiana (62) ?8. Nevada (61) ?9. Alabama (61) ?10. Oklahoma (60) Again, the so-called "Bible Belt" doesn't demonstrate a propensity to get pregnant at any higher rates than other parts of the country but clearly bears those children to term at a higher rate than other areas. Furthermore, the most recent statistics from the government [3], while they do show a change in the rankings, still do not bear out your assertion that the Bible Belt, "particularly evangelicals in the south", have the highest teen pregnancy rates. ?As I've shown birth rates do not equal pregnancy rates. ?You have to factor in abortions as well. You may well have been misled by MSNBC [4] (but then who hasn't been misled by MSNBC), because they recently reported a study that found a correlation between the Bible Belt and birth rates, but that study doesn't address pregnancy or abortion, so it's misleading. ?The study also appears to be biased toward its conclusion by the failure to even consider pregnancy rates. ?Birth rates are not an indicator of teen pregnancies. ?They are an indicator of teen births, which may be an indicator of choices between abortion and bringing a baby to term that are based on religious factors, but I haven't found any data to support that conclusion. I would have preferred to use the CDC data, but their data takes a lot more work to extract than I had time for. ?I suspect it would reveal the same (in general) information that the Guttmacher institute produced. [1] http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:2pauuI7VVBoJ:www.guttmacher.org/pubs/USTPtrends.pdf+statistics+on+teen+pregnancy+by+state&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjJ1Yt7cIlu5z8STulZhAV2cMQnBegPj0drpWSbOq47UR8qRmEv9XgUpJvXaDQik5-q_VqtvI4lGQ5CY_UUzzUFuVFyPu0l6o7casH7DIlOW5t7k4O5J_SFJgY6d5BtFBctb0V7&sig=AHIEtbQiPQuCASJ8Pe1yKqjPfd8vF4rKuA [2] http://womensissues.about.com/od/datingandsex/a/TeenPregStates.htm [3] http://health.usnews.com/health-news/articles/2009/01/08/teen-birthrates-where-does-your-state-rank.html [4] http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32884806/ns/health-kids_and_parenting/ -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. ******************************************* "It is as useless to argue with those who have renounced the use of reason as to administer medication to the dead." 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- [WEB SECURITY] RE: How to stop hackers at the root cause Arian J. Evans (Apr 13)
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- [WEB SECURITY] Re: [owaspdallas] Re: [WEB SECURITY] RE: How to stop hackers at the root cause Arian J. Evans (Apr 14)
- [WEB SECURITY] RE: How to stop hackers at the root cause Arian J. Evans (Apr 13)
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- [WEB SECURITY] RE: How to stop hackers at the root cause Jeremiah Heller (Apr 13)
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