RE: certification for engineers/developers?

["Yousef Syed" <ysyed () dial pipex com>]

I know what you mean about the Certifications. I managed to go the last
seven years as a Java/J2EE Architect Contractor without even a Java
Certification to my name... Then last year, I joined a certain well known
consultancy that insisted on my getting certified! The Java Certification
itself has got to be the most worthless certification on the planet as far
useful knowledge is concerned. However, consultancies use these bits of
paper to charge more for their consultants. 
The only real use that I can see for a certification is if you need to cross
over into a related discipline. I.e. A DBA wanting to prove that he/she is
also a competent programmer; thus getting access to better work. However, a
good manager should see your competency without the need for that silly bit
of paper. 

ys

--
Yousef Syed


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Crispin Cowan
Sent: 24 March 2005 08:17
To: j eric townsend
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SC-L] certification for engineers/developers?

j eric townsend wrote:

> The main reason I'm looking at certification is defensive -- I've been in
one too many meetings where someone's opinion was given more weight because
of industry certification or advanced degree.
>
Yeah, I give certifications weight; *negative* weight. The more 
"certifications" someone advertises, the *less* clueful I assume that 
they are. All other factors being equal, that is; I certainly know 
people who have both certs and clue, but I find that is the exception, 
not the rule.

Advanced degrees are another matter:

    * For practical matters, advanced degrees are orthogonal to clue:
      whether the person advertises an advanced degree seems to be
      independent of their practical knowledge.
    * For theoretical matters, advanced degrees do seem to actually
      predict someone's level of clue. Ask someone to explain how
      Turing's Halting Problem implies a major corollary to computer
      security. Those with an advanced degree often get it, while those
      who are self-educated often reply with "who is Turing?" or "I dunno".
          o Conclusion: learning theory is no fun, so self-educated
            people naturally avoid it unless forced into it.

Crispin

P.S. I am totally serious about the certificates, they go to the 
*bottom* of my resume pile.

-- 
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.  http://immunix.com/~crispin/
CTO, Immunix          http://immunix.com