Replies to Mass. governor demanding ID at political rallies [fs]

[Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] Mass. governor demands ID at political rallies
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:06:31 -0700
From: John Gilmore <gnu () toad com>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>, gnu () toad com
References: <40AD90B5.2020903 () well com>

In a hallway in a public school where the Governor of Mass was speaking:

> >       SECURITY NOTICE
> >       The following items will not be admitted:  ...
> >       SIGNAGE LITERATURE  ...
> >       Government issue photo ID may be required.

So to listen to the governor you now may need to show your
government-issued "papers please", in addition to having your
non-government-issued "papers" confiscated?

I'm glad that Joe Bradley refused to surrender the flyers he'd collected,
and instead alerted the public.  But lost in the discussion of the First
Amendment right to carry pieces of paper around, is the issue of whether
the First Amendment right to assemble and listen to (or petition) the
Governor without "government issue [sic] photo ID".

I am a live person, a citizen, and a taxpayer, and I have no
government-issued photo ID.  What rights do I have to listen to the
Governor when he comes to speak?  He seems to think I have none.  What
do you think?

        John Gilmore
        www.papersplease.org
        www.freetotravel.org
        www.toad.com




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] Mass. governor apparently delights in censoring 
his constitute...
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 06:58:36 EDT
From: Majstoll () aol com
To: declan () well com
CC: thomas () thomasleavitt org

And what about the ridiculous demands for photo-ID?  Surely some people
objected or refused, right?  I went to DC City hall last year with a 
friend without
ID and the guards looked at me like we were crazy.  I pointed out that we
were en route to a public meeting and that Americans are not required to 
have any
ID.  The guard let us in after an a bureaucrat told us in a self important
tone "even I have to show ID here."

Mike Stollenwerk




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] Mass. governor apparently delights in censoring 
his constitutents [fs]
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 07:40:16 -0400
From: Robin 'Roblimo' Miller <robin () roblimo com>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
References: <40AD90B5.2020903 () well com>


>
> ... where does the slippery slope of "legitimate" security limitations
> end?
> How much control over public appearances do our elected and appointed
> officials deserve? Is it appropriate for public officials to "script"
> their
> appearances such that visible signs (literally and figurative) of dissent
> are suppressed?


Suppresion of dissent has become part of the Republican playbook
nationwide. We had a similar situation here in Manateee County, Florida,
a few months ago, during a "town meeting" held by Congresswoman (and
former Florida Secretary of State) Katherine Harris. Ms. Harris's
literature was allowed; only material produced by Democrats and other
subversives was prohibited, and they were the only ones harassed by
(Republican) Sheriff Charley Wells and his deputies. I dislike seeing
these echoes of the old Soviet Union in my country, no matter what party
is behind them, although I am afraid that at the moment the Republican
Party seems to be the one doing the best Stalin-led Communist Party
impersonation. Several articles on my personal  Web site --
http://roblimo.com -- expand on this theme.

- Robin 'Roblimo' Miller
  author and editor
  Bradenton, FL




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] Mass. governor apparently delights in censoring 
his constitutents [fs]
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:56:11 -0400
From: J.D. Abolins <jda-ir () njcc com>
To: Thomas Leavitt <thomas () thomasleavitt org>
CC: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
References: <40AD90B5.2020903 () well com>

Security concerns about "six or eight sheets of 8 by 11 paper"? Well, 
the OSS
-- the special operations service of the ALlies during World War 2 -- did
teach its agents how to kill with a tightly rolled up newspaper. But, as 
one
former OSS operative explained in her memoirs, it was totally impractical.
Image telling the Gestapo to hold on for fifteen minutes while the OSS 
agent
rolls up the newspaper! <g> But letter size paper? Maybe the fear of the
death of a thousand paper cuts being inflicted.

The designation of literature rather than paper sheets of all kinds 
shows the
perception management concerns with content. Echos the selectiveness of the
shunting of critical protesters to remote "free speech zones" while the
supportive demonstrators are brought in close.

Thomas, thank you for sharing that article.

J.D. Abolins

PS. The "governmental ID may be required" notice at the public meeting 
is of
some concern. Sooner or later, I predict we'll have a public comment 
meeting
on National ID systems where all attending must show several IDs. A great
ways to discourage to who object to extensive ID systems in general. But we
know that "stackign the decks" is rare in politics. <wink>




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [Politech] Mass. governor apparently delights in 
censoring hi	s constitutents [fs]
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:00:47 -0400
From: Hoefelmeyer, Ralph <RHoefelmeyer () sb fti-net com>
To: 'Declan McCullagh ' <declan () well com>, 
'politech-bounces () politechbot com ' <politech-bounces () politechbot com>

Declan,
The people of Massachusetts deserve what they have - they have elected
demo-fascists to their public offices - what do they expect?  As for being
nice to the staffers - NO!  People who suggest or enforce stupid policies or
ideas need to be pilloried publicly.  Too often in our society, people
meekly accept something because it's a law or policy.
This has got to stop.
Ralph





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] Mass. governor apparently delights in censoring 
his constitutents [fs]
Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 13:27:24 -0700
From: Thomas Leavitt <thomas () thomasleavitt org>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>
References: <40AD90B5.2020903 () well com>

Declan,

FYI, apparently the Boston Globe picked up on this and followed up with the
Governor's office... who claim it is a "big misunderstanding".

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/05/20/romney_is_wrapped_on_leaflet_policy/?rss_id=Boston%20Globe%20--%20City%20/%20Region%20News

A spokeswoman for the governor said Romney's interns at the event made a
mistake, and that because Bradley wasn't intending to distribute the fliers,
he should have been welcome to enter.

The ACLU thinks that the Governor's policy prohibiting distribution of
literature at events of this sort violates the First Amendment (but they
don't plan to take him to court over it). No comment about the I.D.
requirement, however.

Regards,

Thomas Leavitt




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Politech] Mass. governor apparently delights in censoring 
his constitutents [fs]
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:48:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dean Anderson <dean () av8 com>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan () well com>

Thanks for publishing this.

I'll miss you after you are sent to Guantanamo as an unlawful combatant.
Why, before you know it, someone will be secretly _video_taping_ these
'consensus-building' town meetings.

It is interesting that the "democracy" planned for Iraq involved such town
meetings selecting the representatives. I wonder if those meetings
were/are meant to similarly suppress certain viewpoints.  Can that be
called democracy?  So is it the case that the Iraqi's aren't ready for
democracy, or is it the case that we aren't ready for Iraqi democracy?

Another thing I noticed: It also caught my attention that Nicolas Berg was
beheaded, but not beaten or tortured or made to wear womens' underwear.
I wonder which is worse:  Being killed, or being humiliated, tortured,
raped, and then killed. Given the choice, how many would prefer beheading?
Berg's death, while unfortunate, doesn't seem to justify our presence in
Iraq, as some claimed.

                --Dean

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