Re: They will protect me (won't they?)

["Adriel T. Desautels" <ad_lists () netragard com>]

Comments embedded below:

On Feb 10, 2009, at 5:39 PM, Dotzero wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Adriel T. Desautels
> <ad_lists () netragard com> wrote:
> > One of my recent thoughts and blog entries...
> >
> > So the other day I was talking with my buddy Kevin Finisterre.  One  
> > of the
> > things that we were discussing was people who just don't feel that  
> > security
> > is an important aspect of their business because their customers  
> > don't ask
> > for it.  That always makes my brain scream "WHAT!?". Here's a  
> > direct quote
> > from a security technology vendor "We don't perform regular  
> > penetration
> > tests because our customers don't ask us to do that."
>
>
> If the customer doesn't contract with that vendor for that particular
> service why would it be the vendors obligation. I use multiple vendors
> in the security services area and some I find stronger in some
> services and others stronger in other services. Sometimes I split
> things up for other reasons. I don't want my auditor doing my
> pentests. I view a vendor doing both as a conflict of interest.

I am not talking strictly about security service providers. I am  
talking more along the lines of ISP's and other public service type  
companies. The customers take the security of their providers for  
granted out of ignorance. Thats not insulting, that is a fact. The  
providers then turn around and say "we don't do it because our  
customers don't ask for it". That is the problem that I am talking  
about. Its almost as if these businesses are banking on their  
customer's ignorance.  I have ethical problems with that.

> > Isn't it the service provider's/vendor's responsibility to properly  
> > manage
> > and maintain the security of their infrastructure?  Don't they have  
> > an
> > ethical obligation to their customers to protect the service that  
> > they are
> > offering and any information that the customers decide to store on  
> > their
> > systems?
>
> It depends on the agreement and in some circumstances it may depend on
> regulatory or contractual compliance obligations that derive from the
> contract.
>
>
> > The real question is, how many customers would they lose if the  
> > customers
> > heard them say that? That is after all just like saying "We don't  
> > care about
> > security because our customers aren't asking us to care about it."
>
> Actually, they probably wouldn't lose many. It's not that the vendor
> doesn't care about security, it's that the scope of what they are
> providing is constrained by what the client/customer says they want.
> Flip it around.... how many vendors will walk away from a "bad"
> customer? .... particularly if that customer is a lucrative one?
>
> > So who have I heard this from? Here's the (very) short list:
> >       • Vendors that make security software (like email gateways,
> > anti-virus technology, Intrusion Prevention Systems, etc).
> >       • Vendors that make technology that is used to control our  
> > Nuclear
> > Power Plants, Water Purification Plants, Traffic        Control  
> > Systems,
> > etc.
> >       • Vendors that sell business enabling technologies like PHP  
> > based
> > Content Management Systems, Commercial Web Servers, Server based
> > applications, Web Applications, etc.
> >       • Vendors that sell desktop applications like Financial  
> > Tracking
> > Systems, Invoicing Systems, File Sharing Systems, Backup Solutions,  
> > etc.
> >       • I've also heard this from MAJOR Service Providers such as Web
> > Hosting Providers, Email Providers, Backup Service Providers, etc.
> >       • The list goes on....
> > I think that people need a wake up call.  This strikes me as a  
> > serious
> > ethical issue, what about you? Leave me a comment I'm very  
> > interested in
> > feedback on this one.
>
> I don't know that I would call it an ethical issue. It is certainly an
> issue and a serious one. Unfortunately it will probably take a serious
> incident for the wake up call you mention.

This reminds me of the mentality that the Infrastructure guys have.  
Why does it have to take a 911 to make people realize that they need  
better security in the first place? Why can't people just wake up and  
prevent the 911.


> Just a few thoughts.



        Adriel T. Desautels
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