Penetration Testing mailing list archives
RE: Ethical Hacking Training
From: "Don Parker" <dparker () rigelksecurity com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:19:38 -0500 (EST)
The biggest thing I find is that people have unrealistic expectations. Bottom line is that it takes a lot of time to learn all the various topics that constitute what the average hacker knows. I encounter this mindset all the time with the people I have trained. They wonder why after 4 or 5 days they are not at the same level I am at. Quite simply put because for every day I have taught them I have spent a full year studying and learning. A good example of this is SANS actually. They do a better job then most at teaching imho. The problem is though that over the course of 6 days you are learning an incredible amount of information. Then you have 6 months to certify if you so choose. My thoughts on this prove me correct. Look at the amount of track attendee's vice certified people. To sum up gaining knowledge is no easy task, and simply put takes time. Cheers ------------------------------------------- Don Parker, GCIA Intrusion Detection Specialist Rigel Kent Security & Advisory Services Inc www.rigelksecurity.com ph :613.249.8340 fax:613.249.8319 -------------------------------------------- On Jan 19, "Pete Herzog" <pete () isecom org> wrote: Hi, As a person who has begun to provide training on security testing and analysis, this is tough spot for me as well. The truth is the public buys hacking classes. That's all there is to it. And the more flashy and exploity and thrilling the better because that's what the people buy. But as people want more and more in their 5 days and they want to see hacking exploits, you can expect the money will continue to flow to the hucksters who solicit their wares the best. Funny thing though is that this is happening with almost every facet of security. Training is no different. I really have no plans to take our trainings down that road. But it's a fight every time with people who think ISECOM should be mainstream. Sincerely, -pete. Pete Herzog, Managing Director Institute for Security and Open Methodologies www.isecom.org - www.osstmm.org www.hackerhighschool.org - www.isestorm.org
-----Original Message----- From: Don Parker [mailto:dparker () rigelksecurity com] Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 00:57 AM To: Andy Cuff [Talisker]; Rob Shein; pen-test () securityfocus com Subject: Re: Ethical Hacking Training Evening gentlemen/ladies, this is one sore spot for me. These "Ethical Hacking" courses and others along this vein. These vendors need to be far more clear, as to exactly what a student will come away with, and what they should have knowledge wise prior to attending. I recently sent some feedback to Information Security Magazine in regards to their Technical Editor's take on one such course, (and the technical errors in his column). The problem is that the security industry as a whole is becoming one big money machine. These courses are giving people unrealistic expectations of what they will know after one of these 1 week courses. Nothing wrong with trying to make a dollar, but one should be honest as well in the process. It is doing a great disservice to the industry as a whole to make people think that they will be a "hacker" after a 1 week course. It should be clearly stated that these courses are but an introduction into the world of the true hacker. It will be up to the student to make of it what they will, and then build upon it. Showing people what "Ethical Hacking" is all about is a laudable goal. The thing is we must not forget our own ethics along the way to doing so in pursuit of the almight dollar.
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Current thread:
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training, (continued)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Don Parker (Jan 18)
- RE: Ethical Hacking Training Pete Herzog (Jan 19)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Mike Hoskins (Jan 20)
- RE: Ethical Hacking Training Teicher, Mark (Mark) (Jan 19)
- RE: Ethical Hacking Training DeGennaro, Gregory (Jan 19)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Meritt James (Jan 19)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Stormwalker (Jan 20)
- RE: Ethical Hacking Training Kurt (Jan 20)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Meritt James (Jan 19)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Don Parker (Jan 19)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Kevin Johnson (Jan 20)
- RE: Ethical Hacking Training Don Parker (Jan 19)
- RE: Ethical Hacking Training S. Thomas (Jan 20)
- RE: Ethical Hacking Training DeGennaro, Gregory (Jan 20)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Hamish webhosting.net.nz (Jan 20)
- Ethical Hacking Training Daryl Davis (Jan 20)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Jeff Shawgo (Jan 20)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Chris Kirschke (Jan 20)
- RE: Ethical Hacking Training Kohlenberg, Toby (Jan 20)
- RE: Ethical Hacking Training Don Parker (Jan 20)
- Re: Ethical Hacking Training Don Parker (Jan 18)