oss-sec mailing list archives
Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications
From: Josh Bressers <bressers () redhat com>
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:36:46 -0400 (EDT)
----- Original Message -----
On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 02:31:07PM +0400, Solar Designer wrote:On Thu, Aug 09, 2012 at 11:19:14AM -0700, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:Paper authors tried to port this to PHP security team, but it seems the answer was that it was an application problem.Here's a vulnerability in and attack on session IDs of PHP proper: http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2012/08/not-so-random-numbers-take-two.html This is not exactly the same topic (PHP apps vs. PHP itself), yet it's closely related and the timing of it was provoked by the same research.FWIW, here's a PHP mt_rand() seed cracker that I wrote: http://download.openwall.net/pub/projects/php_mt_seed/ It finds possible seeds given the very first mt_rand() output after being seeded with mt_srand().
...
Maybe these PoCs will help convince someone.
I'm skeptical they will. I've been doing a lot of work for the past year on various proactive security efforts. I keep coming back to two basic things. 1) Most people don't understand security (if they can learn is another topic). 2) We suck at explaining security concepts. Item 1 is solvable to a certain degree with training, but this particular issue I bet is #2. WE see why this is a problem and have trouble understanding why the PHP guys don't. Has anyone tried to talk to them about this further to see if the issue is they don't understand, or are they being stubborn? I'm quite interested in this problem (the general communication issue, not specially this PHP problem). Thanks. -- JB
Current thread:
- Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Yves-Alexis Perez (Aug 09)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Yves-Alexis Perez (Aug 10)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Solar Designer (Aug 22)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Solar Designer (Sep 14)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Josh Bressers (Sep 17)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Raphael Geissert (Sep 17)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Daniel Kahn Gillmor (Sep 17)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Kurt Seifried (Sep 17)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications George Argyros (Sep 20)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Solar Designer (Sep 22)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Vladimir Vorontsov (Sep 23)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications George Argyros (Sep 27)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Raphael Geissert (Sep 24)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications George Argyros (Sep 27)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Solar Designer (Sep 14)
- Re: Randomness Attacks Against PHP Applications Vladimir Vorontsov (Sep 17)