Re: Alternative Re: ipv4/25s and above Re: 202211201009.AYC

[Owen DeLong via NANOG <nanog () nanog org>]

Much of India operates this way today.

Owen


> On Nov 21, 2022, at 15:06, Rubens Kuhl <rubensk () gmail com> wrote:
>
> (forwarded to break thread since this is a different topic)
> What's the group's current thought on emergence or prevalence of
> IPv6-only hosts ? Will they exist soon, in some time or in a very long
> time?
>
>
> Rubens
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: <bzs () theworld com>
> Date: Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 8:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Alternative Re: ipv4/25s and above Re: 202211201009.AYC
> To: NANOG <nanog () nanog org>
>
>
>
> My suggestion is ignore anyone who says it would be too difficult to
> get people to adopt a change or take too long. Someone always says
> that, a reasonable riposte is "what would be a reasonable number of
> people / years?" Surely they must have some numbers in mind, no?
>
> We've been trying to get people to adopt IPv6 widely for 30 years with
> very limited success so perhaps that's a pretty time to shoot for, for
> example. Anything less than 30 years would be an improvement.
>
> I suppose some might leap on that as evidence of the above cautions
> but it's really not. It's just being argumentative. It feels like a
> reasonable argument pattern but it's not because it ignores why that
> previous attempt mostly failed and tries to equate them (we failed for
> 30 years so therefore you will fail for 30 years???)
>
> That said, what's needed is a working demo preferably within both a
> simulation environment and live because the devil is always in the
> details and the only way to vet that is by testing working code.
>
> A mere proposal is of some value, one can glance at it and try to spot
> any fatal flaws for example. But it's only a tiny step along the path.
>
> However, that it might take a while to become adopted is, to me, like
> saying forget trying to mitigate climate change, it'll take decades
> and require hundreds of govts, thousands of industries, and billions
> of people to change their behavior which is all true but hardly an
> argument as to why not to try.
>
> Aside: A pretty good rule of thumb with replacement technologies is
> that something has to be 10x better than what it replaces to get wide
> adoption. Ok maybe not 10, that's a figure of speech, but a lot, and
> certainly not introduce impediments to its own adoption and use.
>
> On November 21, 2022 at 12:00 beecher () beecher cc (Tom Beecher) wrote:
> >    As stated in Subsection 4.A. of the "Revamp The
> >    Internet" whitepaper, all need be done is "Simply disable the existing
> >    software codes that have been disabling the use of the 240/4 netblock."
> >
> >
> > Some friendly feedback. The phrase "all that needs to be done" , is
> > exceptionally reductive, and in the case of internet standards, also always
> > going to end up being wrong.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 11:19 AM Abraham Y. Chen <aychen () avinta com> wrote:
> >
> >    Dear Mark:
> >
> >    0) Thanks for the clarification. I understand. A short message through
> >    the cyberspace, especially between parties who have never met can be
> >    easily skewed. I am glad that I asked you, instead of taking it
> >    negatively without raising my hand.
> >
> >    1) "...I'd, rather, expend those resources on IPv6, 464XLAT, e.t.c. ...
> >    ": Since EzIP is still being further refined, it may not be clear in our
> >    documentation about how much work is required to get the IPv4 out of the
> >    current depletion mode. As stated in Subsection 4.A. of the "Revamp The
> >    Internet" whitepaper, all need be done is "Simply disable the existing
> >    software codes that have been disabling the use of the 240/4 netblock."
> >    In fact, we have found examples that this means commenting out one line
> >    code that searches for then discards packets with 240/4 addressing. It
> >    seems to me that there is no easier task than this.
> >
> >    https://www.avinta.com/phoenix-1/home/RevampTheInternet.pdf
> >
> >    Regards,
> >
> >    Abe (2022-11-21 11:18 EST)
> >
> >
> >
> >    On 2022-11-20 23:56, Mark Tinka wrote:
> > > On 11/20/22 19:02, Abraham Y. Chen wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Mark:
> > > >
> > > > 0)  I am surprised at your apparently sarcastic opinion.
> > > >
> > > > 1)  The EzIP proposal as referenced by my last MSG is the result of
> > > > an in-depth system engineering effort. Since the resultant schemes do
> > > > not rely on any protocol development, IETF does not need be involved.
> > > > Especially, its first step of disabling one line of existing
> > > > networking program code empowers any party to begin deploying EzIP
> > > > stealthily for mitigating the IPv4 address pool depletion issues.
> > > > Note that EzIP is a generic solution applicable to everyone, not
> > > > limited to Africa.
> > > >
> > > > 2)  Of course, constructive criticism is always appreciated. However,
> > > > unspecific comments that confuse and distract the readers only
> > > > provide dis-service to those disadvantaged population who are
> > > > enduring the handicaps of being the late-comers to the Internet.
> > >
> > > My comment was not directed at you. Sorry.
> > >
> > > I have nothing against the EzIP proposal. It just does not add any
> > > real value in solving the IPv4 depletion problem for the amount of
> > > effort required to implement it, in my view. I'd, rather, expend those
> > > resources on IPv6, 464XLAT, e.t.c.
> > >
> > > Mark.
> >
> >
> >    --
> >    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >    www.avast.com
>
> --
>        -Barry Shein
>
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