Re: What do you think about this airline vs 5G brouhaha?

[nanog08 () mulligan org]

Yeah - I'm sure they do and that is my point.  The heads of Verizon and 
ATT are not flying commercial. Their planes are not commercial airlines 
with hundreds of passengers == so they can much more easily just divert...

Geoff


On 1/19/22 15:12, sronan () ronan-online com wrote:
> Considering Verizon has a very sizable fleet of private aircraft, I am 
> fairly certain this will happen often.
>
> Shane
>
> > On Jan 19, 2022, at 4:59 PM, nanog08 () mulligan org wrote:
> >
> >  Scott - a side note to clarify things...
> >
> > The 737 Max8 problem was NOT due to lack of testing or 
> > non-incremental changes.  The system was well tested and put through 
> > it's paces.  It was a lack of proper pilot training in the aircraft 
> > and its systems and some carriers choosing to NOT purchase specific 
> > flight control options.
> >
> > Full disclosure - my classmate was the Chief Test Pilot for the MAX8 
> > and another classmate is the current FAA Administrator.
> >
> > But I digress - sorry...
> >
> > If you look at 5G deployments around Japan and Europe, generally they 
> > are NOT right up next to major airports.
> >
> > I would like to ask ATT and Verizon senior leadership to put their 
> > loved ones onto a commercial aircraft that is flying into ORD during 
> > a blizzard on a Zero-Zero landing (the pilots relying on radio 
> > altimeters) and the 5G network up and running and then ask how 
> > confident they are that NOTHING will interfere and 5G is perfectly safe.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On 1/19/22 14:37, Scott McGrath wrote:
> > > I’m guessing you are not a pilot,  one reason aviation is resistant 
> > > to change is its history is written in blood,    Unlike tech 
> > > aviation is incremental change and painstaking testing and 
> > > documentation of that testing.
> > >
> > > When that does not happen we get stuff like the 737 Max debacle
> > >
> > > Aviation is the antithesis of ‘Move fast and break things mentality’ 
> > > for a very good reason safety.
> > >
> > > On my flying club’s plane every replacement part comes with a 
> > > pedigree which is added to the plane’s maintenance log upon 
> > > installation and the reason for removing the old one recorded
> > >
> > > Imagine how much easier our networks would be to maintain if we had 
> > > records down to the last cable tie in the data center.   If there 
> > > was a bug in a SFP+ for instance all of them, when they were 
> > > installed and by who and what supplier they came from was readily 
> > > available sure would make my life easier.
> > >
> > > The reasoning behind that massive pile of documents (pilot joke ‘a 
> > > plane is not ready to fly until the weight of the paperwork equals 
> > > the weight of the airplane’) is that if a failure is traced to a 
> > > component all of them can be traced and removed from service.
> > >
> > > On a Airbus for instance all the takeoff and landing safety systems 
> > > are tied to the RadAlt.  The EU has strict rules about where the 
> > > c-band can be used as does Japan both use the 120 second rule c-band 
> > > devices not allowed in areas where the the aircraft is in its 
> > > beginning/ending 2 minutes of flight.
> > >
> > > So the REST of the world got c-band right the US not so much
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:59 AM Dennis Glatting <dg () pki2 com> wrote:
> > >
> > >     On Tue, 2022-01-18 at 12:29 -0800, Michael Thomas wrote:
> > >     >
> > >     > I really don't know anything about it. It seems really late to be
> > >     > having
> > >     > this fight now, right?
> > >     >
> > >
> > >     I worked in aviation as a technologist. Aviation is resistant to
> > >     change.
> > >     Any change. When you fly older aircraft, be aware that the
> > >     software is
> > >     old. Very old. As in some of the vendors long ago stopped
> > >     supporting the
> > >     software kind of old, assuming the vendors still exist.
> > >
> > >     Aviation didn't wake up one day with the sudden appearance of
> > >     5G. They
> > >     knew it was comming. They, aviation themselves, are heavily
> > >     involved in
> > >     standards. Aviation had plenty of time to test, correct, and
> > >     protest.
> > >
> > >     What aviation now wants is a 5G exclusion zone around airports,
> > >     or what
> > >     I sarcastically call "a technology exclusion zone," which tends
> > >     to be
> > >     businesses and homes. What is aviation going to do when 6G comes
> > >     along?
> > >     A new WiFi standard is implemented? Any other unforeseen future
> > >     wired/wireless technologies? Or perhaps cell phones should go
> > >     back to
> > >     Morse Code for aviation's sake?
> > >
> > >     🤷‍♂️️
> > >
> > >
> > >     -- 
> > >     Dennis Glatting
> > >     Numbers Skeptic