Re: DDoS attack with blackmail

[Jon Sands <fohdeesha () gmail com>]

I can also name one recent instance in which a client of mine was without
doubt DdoS'd by a mitigation provider they were getting a quote from, and
sadly this didn't even end up being the worst of the behavior we had to
deal with from them before ultimately terminating our contract with them.
It's not surprising either, if you look into the history of the
owner/founder (hint: fbi serving warrants for cybercrime). The security
sector is sadly rife with this crap in my experience

On Mon, May 24, 2021, 12:59 PM Matt Erculiani <merculiani () gmail com> wrote:

> Jim,
>
> While I don't envy those who put in long hours to mitigate DDoSes at the
> 11th hour, the security industry as a whole, DDoS mitigation included,
> doesn't have a perfectly clean track record. Public court records offer
> plenty of evidence, and convictions from foul play while trying to win bids.
>
> An individual I worked with previously personally handled a long, drawn
> out DDoS event that was ultimately perpetrated by a security contractor
> bidding for a job (I didn't work it personally, but it was a frequent topic
> of discussion while it was ongoing). Fortunately, after subsequent months
> of law enforcement investigation, the contractor was brought up on charges.
>
> It's definitely not "crap" , it's a fact, albeit not necessarily common.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 10:38 AM jim deleskie <deleskie () gmail com> wrote:
>
> > While I have no design to engage in over email argument over how much
> > latency people can actually tolerate, I will simply state that most people
> > have a very poor understanding of it and how much additional latency is
> > really introduced by DDoS mitigation.
> >
> > As for implying that DDoS mitigation companies are complicit or involved
> > in attacks, while not the first time i heard that crap it's pretty
> > offensive to those that work long hours for years dealing with the
> > garbage.  If you honestly believe anyone your dealing with is involved with
> > launching attacks you clearly have not done your research into potential
> > partners.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat., May 22, 2021, 11:20 a.m. Jean St-Laurent via NANOG, <
> > nanog () nanog org> wrote:
> >
> > > Some industries can’t afford that extra delay by DDoS mitigation vendors.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The video game industry is one of them and there might be others that
> > > can’t tolerate these extra ms. Telemedicine, video-conference, fintech, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As a side note, my former employer in video game was bidding for these
> > > vendors offering DDoS protection. While bidding, we were hit with abnormal
> > > patterns. As soon as we chose one vendors those very tricky DDoS patterns
> > > stopped.
> > >
> > > I am not saying they are working on both side, but still the coincidence
> > > was interesting. In the end, we never used them because they were not able
> > > to perfectly block the threat without impacting all the others projects.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think these mitigators are nice to have as a very last resort. I
> > > believe what is more important for Network Operators is: to be aware of
> > > this, to be able to detect it, mitigate it and/or minimize the impact. It’s
> > > like magic, where did that rabbit go?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The art of war taught me everything there is to know about DDoS attacks
> > > even if it was written some 2500 years ago.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I suspect that the attack that impacted Baldur’s assets was a very easy
> > > DDoS to detect and block, but can’t confirm.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > @Baldur: do you care to share some metrics?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jean
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+jean=ddostest.me () nanog org> *On Behalf Of *Jean
> > > St-Laurent via NANOG
> > > *Sent:* May 21, 2021 10:52 AM
> > > *To:* 'Lady Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE' <lb () 6by7 net>; 'Baldur
> > > Norddahl' <baldur.norddahl () gmail com>
> > > *Cc:* 'NANOG Operators' Group' <nanog () nanog org>
> > > *Subject:* RE: DDoS attack with blackmail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I also recommend book Art of War from Sun Tzu.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All the answers to your questions are in that book.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jean
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:* NANOG <nanog-bounces+jean=ddostest.me () nanog org> *On Behalf Of *Lady
> > > Benjamin Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
> > > *Sent:* May 20, 2021 7:18 PM
> > > *To:* Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl () gmail com>
> > > *Cc:* NANOG Operators' Group <nanog () nanog org>
> > > *Subject:* Re: DDoS attack with blackmail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 20 years ago I wrote an automatic teardrop attack.  If your IP spammed
> > > us 5 times, then a script would run, knocking the remote host off the
> > > internet entirely.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Later I modified it to launch 1000 teardrop attacks/second…
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Today,  contact the FBI.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And get a mitigation service above your borders if you can.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > —L.B.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ms. Lady Benjamin PD Cannon of Glencoe, ASCE
> > >
> > > 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC
> > >
> > > CEO
> > >
> > > lb () 6by7 net
> > >
> > > "The only fully end-to-end encrypted global telecommunications company
> > > in the world.”
> > >
> > > FCC License KJ6FJJ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On May 20, 2021, at 12:26 PM, Baldur Norddahl <baldur.norddahl () gmail com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We got attacked by a group that calls themselves "Fancy Lazarus". They
> > > want payment in BC to not attack us again. The attack was a volume attack
> > > to our DNS and URL fetch from our webserver.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am interested in any experience in fighting back against these guys.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Baldur
>
> --
> Matt Erculiani
> ERCUL-ARIN