Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal

[Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net>]

What is lost if AT&T or Comcast sells my anonymized usage habits? 

Quite frankly I think targeting advertising is a great thing. On TV I see all kinds of commercials for medicine for 
diseases I've never heard of, old people complications I won't have for another 40 or 50 years, etc. Waste of my time, 
waste of their dollars. Targeted advertising brings me Hurricane Electric advertisements, network gear, servers, etc. 
Things I'm likely to be shopping for. Seems better in every way. 

You'd have better luck getting regulation passed with precise language. The collected information can (or cannot) be 
used in these specific ways. 

ISPs lying? Sounds like something for the courts, not capitol hill. 

Otherwise it just sounds like whining. I don't like them either, but certain groups will do whatever they can do "get 
back" at AT&T, Comcast, etc. regardless of what flag they're flying at the time (privacy, net neutrality, doughnut 
selections, whatever). 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mel Beckman" <mel () beckman org> 
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog () ics-il net> 
Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog () nanog org> 
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 10:11:57 PM 
Subject: Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal 

I generally believe less government is better government. But government is still necessary for a few things, such as 
the military. And privacy. Because privacy invasion is a crime committed in secret, so economic "voting" doesn't work. 
Without a law prohibiting selling of browser data, ISPs will simply lie and say they don't do it (as many already 
have). 

A VPN is no help. Every browser has to jump on the bare Internet somewhere, and where it does, data can be captured and 
then analyzed to identify individual user signatures. As the NSA (thank you Snowden) has so ably demonstrated. 

A law gives victims access to the power of legal discovery, civil damages, and even criminal prosecution. Where data 
privacy is concerned, we must have it. 

-mel beckman 

> On Mar 28, 2017, at 7:30 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote: 
>
> As I say often. Perhaps a better way of handling things is instead of running to the government every time we get a 
> tear in our eyes, vote with feet\wallets. Support your local independent (well, the ones that believe whatever it is 
> you believe). 
>
>
>
>
> ----- 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>
> The Brothers WISP 
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>
> From: "Mike Hammett" <nanog () ics-il net> 
> To: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick () ianai net> 
> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog () nanog org> 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:18:40 PM 
> Subject: Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal 
>
> It was more a plea to educate the list on why this matters vs. doom and gloom with a little more gloom and a little 
> less Carmack. Instead I got more of the sky is falling. 
>
> Note that I don't intend to ever do this at my ISP, nor my IX. 
>
>
>
>
> ----- 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>
> The Brothers WISP 
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>
> From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick () ianai net> 
> To: "NANOG list" <nanog () nanog org> 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 9:12:15 PM 
> Subject: Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal 
>
> Mike: 
>
> My guess is you do not. 
>
> Which is -precisely- why the users (proletariat?) need to find a way to stop you. Hence laws & regulations. 
>
> Later in this thread you said “we are done here”. Would that you were so lucky. 
>
> -- 
> TTFN, 
> patrick 
>
> > On Mar 28, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote: 
> >
> > Why am I supposed to care? 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- 
> > Mike Hammett 
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> >
> > The Brothers WISP 
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >
> > From: "Rich Kulawiec" <rsk () gsp org> 
> > To: nanog () nanog org 
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2017 4:45:25 PM 
> > Subject: Re: EFF Call for sign-ons: ISPs, networking companies and engineers opposed to FCC privacy repeal 
> >
> > > On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 06:45:04PM +0000, Mel Beckman wrote: 
> > > The claim oft presented by people favoring this customer abuse is that 
> > > the sold data is anonymous. But it's been well-established that very 
> > > simple data aggregation techniques can develop signatures that reveal 
> > > the identity of people in anonymized data. 
> >
> > This needs to be repeated loudly and often at every possible opportunity. 
> > I've spent much of the past decade studying this issue and the most succinct 
> > way I can put it is that however good you (generic "you") think 
> > de-anonymization techniques are, you're wrong: they're way better than that. 
> > Billions, and I am not exaggerating even a little bit, have been spent 
> > on this problem, and they've been spent by smart people with essentially 
> > unlimited computational resources. And whaddaya know, they've succeeded. 
> >
> > So if someone presents you a data corpus and says "this data is anonymized", 
> > the default response should be to mock them, because there is a very high 
> > probability they're either (a) lying or (b) wrong. 
> >
> > Incidentally, I'm also a signatory of the EFF document, since of course 
> > with nearly 40 years in the field I'm a mere clueless newbie and despite 
> > ripping them a new one about once every other month, I'm clearly a tool 
> > of Google. 
> >
> > ---rsk