Re: Dual stack IPv6 for IPv4 depletion

[Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net>]

You don't work with end-users much, do you? The same types that follow Free Press and what not about how their ISP 
breaks it off in their backside (despite no concrete evidence - see the recent M-Labs, Free Press incident)... they 
won't take too kindly to being told to pay more for IPv4 to make whatever game work properly. It has to be seamless and 
it has to be free. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 



Midwest Internet Exchange 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Mel Beckman" <mel () beckman org> 
To: "Josh Moore" <jmoore () atcnetworks net> 
Cc: nanog () nanog org 
Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2015 10:52:36 AM 
Subject: Re: Dual stack IPv6 for IPv4 depletion 

Dual-stack doesn't require public IPv4 addresses. Since IPv4 is in short supply, providers must still do what they can 
to conserve them. This means NAT, with appropriate management to not overload any one IP, or CGN if you want to keep 
public IPv4 (but no longer unique ones) on CPE. Not every customer needs direct IPv4 connectivity without NAT; those 
that do must pay for it. If those who have it aren't willing to pay, they must give up their public IPv4 address. 

That is the most efficient direct IPv4 provisioning concept we have today. Given the history of IPv6 adoption, it's 
clear that people won't move until they experience pain sticking with IPv4. 

"On demand" IPv4 isn't currently being done anywhere AFAIK, and since we're abandoning IPv4 it's not likely anyone has 
that on their priority list. It's not a good policy to go out of your way to make IPv4 users comfortable. IPv4 is going 
to go away, and the sooner customers get that and go to IPv6, the sooner the pain will stop :) 

-mel beckman 

> On Jul 4, 2015, at 6:02 PM, Josh Moore <jmoore () atcnetworks net> wrote: 
>
> Traditional dual stack deployments implement both IPv4 and IPv6 to the CPE. 
> Consider the following: 
>
> An ISP is at 90% IPv4 utilization and would like to deploy dual stack with the purpose of allowing their subscriber 
> base to continue to grow regardless of the depletion of the IPv4 space. Current dual stack best practices seem to 
> recommend deploying BOTH IPv4 and IPv6 to every CPE. If this is the case, and BOTH are still required, then how does 
> IPv6 help with the v4 address depletion crisis? Many sites and services would still need legacy IPv4 compatibility. 
> Sure, CGN technology may be a solution but what about applications that need direct IPv4 connectivity without NAT? It 
> seems that there should be a mechanism to enable on-demand and efficient IPv4 address consumption ONLY when needed. 
> My question is this: What, if any, solutions like this exist? If no solution exists then what is the next best thing? 
> What would the overall IPv6 migration strategy and goal be? 
>
> Sorry for the length of this email but these are legitimate concerns and while I understand the need for IPv6 and the 
> importance of getting there; I don't understand exactly HOW that can be done considering the immediate issue: IPv4 
> depletion. 
>
>
> Thanks 
>
> Joshua Moore 
> Network Engineer 
> ATC Broadband 
> 912.632.3161