Re: Level 3 blames Internet slowdowns on Technica

[Owen DeLong <owen () delong com>]

Depends.

On some services (L3, etc.), yes, they compete.
That should not be conflated with competing at the L1 service.
MSOs deliver L1 co-ax or HFC.
RLECs deliver copper pairs and/or GPON.
Satellite is it’s own peculiar sets of L1 transport.

None of them compete head-to-head on the same technology on L1.

Owen

On Mar 26, 2014, at 10:11 PM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk () iname com> wrote:

> And MSOs, wireless carriers, and satellite providers aren't competitors to
> RLECs?
>
> Frank
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen () delong com] 
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 9:05 PM
> To: Frank Bulk
> Cc: Naslund, Steve; nanog () nanog org
> Subject: Re: Level 3 blames Internet slowdowns on Technica
>
> Since a second build-out is impractical (if not actually impossible) and
> they don't
> sell UNEs, they are, in fact, pretty much exempt from direct competition for
> the
> same services.
>
> Owen
>
> On Mar 23, 2014, at 8:20 PM, Frank Bulk <frnkblk () iname com> wrote:
>
> > I think I understand what you're saying -- you believe that RLECs that
> don't
> > have to provide UNE's are exempt from competition.  I guess I don't see
> the
> > lack of that requirement meaning that there's no competition -- it just
> > means that the kind of competition is different.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Naslund, Steve [mailto:SNaslund () medline com] 
> > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 10:16 PM
> > To: Frank Bulk
> > Cc: nanog () nanog org
> > Subject: RE: Level 3 blames Internet slowdowns on Technica
> >
> > Many rural LECs are not required to provide unbundled network elements.
> As
> > a network provider you can resell their service but they are not required
> to
> > provide unbundled elements necessary to compete against them as a
> facilities
> > based provider.  So, for example, in Alamo Tennessee or Northern Wisconsin
> > you can get a T-1 from a competitive carrier that resells their services
> but
> > you cannot get competitive POTS service.  You can buy DSL service from
> > anyone but they are reselling the RLECs DSL access services not just
> running
> > on their cable pairs.  One of the biggest players that specializes in
> being
> > a rural LEC is Frontier Communications.
> >
> > Yes, there are wireless carriers and satellite providers but especially in
> > rural areas they are not a real viable alternative for high speed data
> since
> > we know the characteristic of satellite service and WISPs have the same
> > density problem in providing service in rural areas.  It is hard for a
> WISP
> > to be profitable when you only have a handful of customers per mile.  Same
> > formula, low density, long distances, high infrastructure per customer
> cost
> > for the WISP.
> >
> > Steven Naslund
> > Chicago IL
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Frank Bulk [mailto:frnkblk () iname com] 
> > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 10:08 PM
> > To: Naslund, Steve
> > Cc: nanog () nanog org
> > Subject: RE: Level 3 blames Internet slowdowns on Technica
> >
> > Not sure which rural LECs are exempt from competition.  Some areas are
> > effectively exempt from facilities-based (i.e. wireline) competition
> because
> > it's unaffordable, without subsidy, to build a duplicate wireline
> > infrastructure.  There are also wireless carriers and WISPs the compete
> > against RLECs, as well as satellite providers.  I'm not aware of any
> > exclusivity.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Naslund, Steve [mailto:SNaslund () medline com]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 9:00 PM
> > To: Joe Greco
> > Cc: nanog () nanog org
> > Subject: RE: Level 3 blames Internet slowdowns on Technica
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > In a low density area you can never fund a build out which is where
> > universal access charges came from and the reason that rural LECs are
> exempt
> > from competition.  In return for building a network that is not profitable
> > easily they get exclusive access to sell services on it to give them a
> > chance.  Will your NRC be reasonable anywhere outside a major metro area?
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Steven Naslund
> > Chicago IL