Re: Rollup: Small City Municipal Broadband

[Jason Baugher <jason () thebaughers com>]

What we've seen is that the RBOC typically has a lot of crap copper in the
ground, in a lot of cases air-core (pre gel-fill) that hasn't held up well.
With the popularity of DSL, they ran out of good pairs to use. As they ran
out of pairs, they eventually had to put in remote terminals to handle any
new voice orders. They knew the future was fiber, at least to the node, so
they had no incentive to build new copper plant, and little incentive to
maintain the existing plant.


On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Scott Helms <khelms () zcorum com> wrote:

> Fletcher,
>
> Your specific case may vary, but I am most certainly _not_ "making stuff
> up".  In many territories, especially outside of major metro areas, you
> cannot order dry pairs.  This has been because of a combination of relaxed
> rules (if you really want I can dig up the NTCA reports on this) and
> because the rules never required the ILEC to add capacity once they were
> used up.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Fletcher Kittredge <fkittred () gwi net>
> wrote:
>
> > In this particular post, your making stuff up.   There are still
> > "residential focused" CLECs and ordering Unbundled Network Elements(UNEs)
> > is not more difficult than in the past.   The rules haven't changed.
> >
> > What is certainly true is that many CLECs have found that it is more
> > lucrative to sell to businesses, but I don't think there is a correlation
> > with residential getting more difficult.   We used to be 75%/25%
> > residential/business and are now 45%/55% business, but that reflects the
> > *rapid* growth of the business market.
> >
> > regards,
> > Fletcher
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Scott Helms <khelms () zcorum com> wrote:
> >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > I'm assuming from your domain that you're in Canada where yes dry pairs
> > > are
> > > still generally available.  I apologize for not making it clear that my
> > > comment was specifically about the US where dry pairs are nearly
> > > impossible
> > > to order today and the CLEC market has almost entirely abandoned the
> > > residential space. In fact, the only state in the US that I still see
> any
> > > residentially focused CLECs is Texas which tells me there is something
> > > about the regulations in that state that makes it more feasible.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Joe Abley <jabley () hopcount ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 2013-02-03, at 14:39, Scott Helms <khelms () zcorum com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dry pairs are impossible to order these days for a reason.
> > > >
> > > > Dry pairs are trivial to order round these parts. Generalisations are
> > > > always wrong, no doubt including this one.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Joe (putting the N back in NANOG)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Scott Helms
> > > Vice President of Technology
> > > ZCorum
> > > (678) 507-5000
> > > --------------------------------
> > > http://twitter.com/kscotthelms
> > > --------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Fletcher Kittredge
> > GWI
> > 8 Pomerleau Street
> > Biddeford, ME 04005-9457
> > 207-602-1134
>
>
>
>
> --
> Scott Helms
> Vice President of Technology
> ZCorum
> (678) 507-5000
> --------------------------------
> http://twitter.com/kscotthelms
> --------------------------------