Re: "It's the end of the world as we know it" -- REM

[Lee Howard <Lee () asgard org>]

On 4/26/13 7:31 AM, "Owen DeLong" <owen () delong com> wrote:

> On Apr 25, 2013, at 10:49 PM, Michael Thomas <mike () mtcc com> wrote:
>
> > On 04/25/2013 07:27 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> > > > At some level, I wonder how much the feedback loop of "providers
> > > > won't deploy ipv6 because everybody says they won't deploy ipv6"
> > > > has caused this self-fulfilling prophecy :/
> > > It's a definite issue. The bigger issue is the financial incentives
> > > are all in the
> > > wrong direction.
> > >
> > > Eyeball networks have an incentive not to deploy IPv6 until content
> > > providers
> > > have done so or until they have no other choice.
> >
> > Yet, eyeball networks are the ones being asked to pony up all of the
> > cost to put in place the hacks to keep v4 running so they don't get
> > support center calls. That's a pretty asymmetric, and a potential
> > opportunity.
>
> Quite the contraryŠ I personally think that the abysmal rate of IPv6
> adoption among
> some content providers (Are you listening, Amazon, Xbox, BING?) is just
> plain shameful.

Bing supports IPv6: http://www.worldipv6launch.org/
The site www.xbox.com supports IPv6 (ditto), but the Xbox device does not.
My favorite place to see what content supports IPv6 is Eric Vyncke's site:
http://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/detailed.php?country=us
Thus, credit to Microsoft for Bing, but points off for live.com, msn.com,
microsoft.com, etc.

Similarly, partial credit to Amazon for ELB on AWS [1], but points off for
amazon.com, ebay.com, and for pity's sake, aws.amazon.com and
amazonaws.com.


[1] 
http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2011/05/24/elb-ipv6-zoneapex-secu
ritygroups/

> I applaud Yahoo, Google, Facebook, and others who have adopted IPv6. I'd
> like
> to applaud Netflix here, but they keep going back and forth on their IPv6
> support,
> so they get a one-handed clap for the moment.
>
> I'm trying to encourage people to push on the content providers to deploy
> IPv6
> to avoid the need for eyeball networks to pony up all these bizarre hacks.
>
> Lee Howard has some rather interesting research showing that for eyeball
> networks, the most cost effective thing up to about (IIRC) $15/address is
> to
> simply keep buying IPv4 addresses on the transfer market. Beyond that, it
> actually becomes cheaper to simply go IPv6-only and accept the loss of
> customers that won't accept that solution.

See 
http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog56/presentations/Wednesday/wed.general.h
oward.24.wmv
and 
http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog57/presentations/Tuesday/tue.cost-ipv4-i
pv6-dual-stack.howard.wmv
(and for dollar signs on the second one, see TCO of IPv6 at
http://new.livestream.com/internetsociety/INETDenver2013/videos/16668823  )

But to see the rest, you have come to NANOG58 in New Orleans!



> > > > On the other hand, there is The Cloud. I assume that aws and all of
> > > > the
> > > > other major vm farms have native v6 networks by now (?). I hooked up
> > > You again assume facts not in evidence. Many cloud providers have done
> > > IPv6. Rackspace stands out as exemplary in this regard. Linode has done
> > > some good work in this space.
> > >
> > > AWS stands out as a complete laggard in this area.
> >
> > Heh... that's why I put all kinds of question marks and hedges :)
> > That's disappointing about aws. On the other hand, if aws lights
> > up v6, a huge amount of content will be v6 capable in one swell-foop.
> > Which is a different problem of death by a thousand cuts of corpro
> > data centers, and racked up servers in no-name cages.
>
> Actually, if Amazon.com lit up IPv6, it would dramatically change the
> IPv6-only
> client landscape. I believe they are the single largest IPv4-only content
> provider
> remaining. IIRC from Lee's statistics, Amazon + any 2 other members of the
> Alexa 100 would make it possible for 70% or more of web traffic to go over
> IPv6.

Not mine; Alain Fiocco's numbers  at http://6lab.cisco.com/stats/
It's not quite that positive, either, but you can see in the Information
page of that site that there's a very sharp bend in which sites get the
most hits.  The top 15-20 are disproportionate; after that, in many cases
substitute web sites are available.



> > > > v6 support on linode in, oh, less than an hour for my site. Maybe part
> > > > of this just evangelizing with the Cloud folks to get the word out
> > > > that
> > > > v6 is both supported *and* beneficial for your site? And it might
> > > > give them
> > > > a leg up with "legacy" web infrastructure data centers to lure them?
> > > > "Oh,
> > > > your corpro IT guys won't light up v6? let me show you how easy it is
> > > > on
> > > > $MEGACLOUD".
> > > +1 -- I encourage people to seek providers that support IPv6.
> >
> > Name. and. shame. At some level, some amount of bs is probably useful
> > to scare the suits: "OMG, VZW'S PHONES SUPPORT V6, DO WE DO THAT????".
> > Roll your eyes, but, well, remember they're suits.
>
> I've been doing just that. Interestingly, I got a great deal of criticism
> for doing
> so recently.

Where do you name and shame suits?  Hint: it isn't NANOG.

Lee, who has been known to wear a suit