nanog mailing list archives
Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al)
From: "'Luke S. Crawford'" <lsc () prgmr com>
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 21:46:58 -0400
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 02:42:36PM -0500, Frank Bulk wrote:
I've been many times where you were, frustrated that I didn't know the dark fiber options for a potential opportunity, but you have to remind yourself don't have a *right* to know where *private* fiber is. It's not just the physical property, the lack of documentation is a competitive advantage.
Considering that nearly all of this fiber runs over public right of ways granted by the government (and sometimes through the use of force by the government) it's not really private in the sense that it would be if you bury fiber on land you own, or on land owned by private individuals that have given you the right to run fiber over or through the land through some voluntary exchange of value. The public right of ways are created by the government as a public good, and as such, I think the people have a right to know what goes on in them. (Actually, I was talking to a far more experienced friend the other day, and he says that I should be able to contact the PUC and get exactly this data, though often this, too, is somewhat difficult, so when I re-start this project in a few months, that's the direction I am going to attack first.) Legal issues aside, treating a lack of documentation as a competitive advantage makes any transaction vastly less efficient when you consider both parties. I don't do business that way, and when I have a choice? I don't do business with companies that do. Yes, it is legal, and I am not suggesting that should change. But it's still an asshole move that (from a perspective that considers both parties) destroys value. I talked to the silicon valley power people (the operators of the Santa Clara municipal fiber network) and they gave me a cost per mile and a very detailed map (down to what side of the street the fiber is on) - they wouldn't let me have a copy of the map that actually documented the 'pull boxes', but still, it was enough information that I could look at a building and tell pretty quickly if I was wasting their time or not by getting a quote. Talking to anyone else? no maps (or ridiculously vague maps) and no cost per mile. I have to pick two endpoints and ask how much. In my case, the endpoints depend almost entirely on how much it costs, this means I waste a whole lot of salesperson time, and my own time. It's a vastly less efficient way to do business.
Current thread:
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al), (continued)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Joseph Snyder (Mar 24)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Owen DeLong (Mar 24)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Joseph Snyder (Mar 24)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Michael Painter (Mar 25)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Keegan Holley (Mar 22)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Jared Mauch (Mar 22)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Keegan Holley (Mar 22)
- RE: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Eric Wieling (Mar 22)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Luke S. Crawford (Mar 22)
- RE: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Frank Bulk (Mar 24)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) 'Luke S. Crawford' (Mar 24)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) William Herrin (Mar 22)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc Masataka Ohta (Mar 22)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc Jimmy Hess (Mar 23)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc Masataka Ohta (Mar 24)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Keegan Holley (Mar 22)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) William Herrin (Mar 22)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Ray Soucy (Mar 26)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) david peahi (Mar 26)
- RE: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Chuck Church (Mar 26)
- Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) Ray Soucy (Mar 26)