Re: Looking for a Tier 1 ISP Mentor for career advice.

[Jeff Richmond <jeff.richmond () gmail com>]

All excellent advice, but let me point out something else. I manage a team of backbone engineers and still do quite a 
bit of engineering work myself. When I interview, I never get caught up on certs or degrees. Now, do I ignore them? No, 
of course not. They do mean something and I know I worked hard for my JNCIE, so they add value. However, what I want to 
see is someone that is energetic and has a drive to learn, but the most important piece of my interviews once I am 
confident they meet my technical needs is the personality evaluation. I know my team works crappy hours, gets pulled 
100 different directions and just really have a tough job sometimes. What I can't have is a toxic person added to the 
mix, no matter how ridiculously smart or qualified they might be. So there have been times I have turned away more 
qualified candidates just because I was not comfortable with their attitude or vibe. Hiring and firing is extremely 
difficult to correct if you make the wrong choice, and I have learned a thing or two over the years in this regard.

That said, there is something else to consider too. In most large companies, the managers don't always have a lot of 
power when it comes to salaries and in some cases, even promotions. So, without specific experience and a salary 
history, you may be artificially held down due to HR policies no matter how well you do. I know that has happened a 
number of times at various places I have worked, and it is frustrating both for the candidate and the manager. There 
are many places where it is better to actually leave the company and come back to get around the HR constraints 
regarding salary augments from internal promotions. So, just be aware that even though you are working hard and going 
above and beyond, you might not always get initially rewarded for it. However, in time it will almost always correct 
itself, but even so, keeping a positive attitude and having a desire to learn will always benefit you in the end one 
way or another. 

Of course, once you get to the point of being in the industry for a long time like most of us here, you'll look back 
and say what the heck was I thinking, I should have been an accountant. Heh :)

Best of luck,
-Jeff


On Nov 22, 2011, at 3:52 AM, David Swafford wrote:

> Scott's point is very true!  Motivation will help you go very far,
> much farther than certs/knowledge alone.  As a soon to be
> college-grad, be ready for the initial disappointment, :-), even
> though you'll have your CCNP, you have no real experience, so you'll
> start at the entry level.  That's not a bad thing, but you might see
> it as such.  The reason it is good, is that while at the entry level
> (networking that is, I'm not talking about a helpdesk), you'll get to
> touch and interact with a lot of different things with very little
> "total" responsibility.
>
> As you impress your peers, this will trickle up towards management,
> and eventually work it's way out into better tasks and larger
> responsibilities (try to not get caught up in "the title").  I'm
> speaking from experience here, I'm a senior network engineer for a $2
> B company, yet only 25 years old, currently working on my R/S CCIE
> purely for the learning experience.  It took me nearly 4 years to move
> from an associate to a senior in my company, which is not common in
> that short of a time-frame for my employer, but that's where the
> motivation piece comes in -- expressing true passion, and learning
> things because "they are cool/interest you" will take you far.
> Learning on paper is what you're taught in college and it only works
> so far, but learning from hand-on, like the lab you've got built, is
> where you attain the knowledge/troubleshooting/experience that will
> help you succeed.
>
> A comment earlier in the thread mentioned "should I learn active
> directory/exchange"?  I hear this a lot from our fellow associate's on
> the team.... and to be honest, if you are learning something just to
> add it to your resume, that will be a waste of your time.  But, if you
> are learning it because you find it interesting  or just want to
> explore, then by all means go deep into it.  I personally go by the
> motto "go full in or don't go at all".  So if I'm going to learn
> something, I'll get as deep as I can into it, and focus on just it for
> a little while, then I'll move to something else, and focus on just
> that.  If you try to focus on too many separate things, you'll become
> this odd ball of knowledge that can't really hold you own -- a tip in
> the industry that will get you far:  be able to take ownership, and
> fully run/own what you're working on.  Regardless of level/title/role,
> a person who takes initive (within the scope/dynamic of their
> position), will go far.
>
> Best of luck to you,
> David.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Scott Weeks <surfer () mauigateway com> wrote:
> > --- tyler.haske () gmail com wrote:
> > From: Tyler Haske <tyler.haske () gmail com>
> >
> > I'd love to have varied experience with a bunch of different companies, but
> > first I'm trying to guarantee my first network engineering job out of
> > college.
> > -----------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > You've already taken the first step.  That step being you becoming more motivated than many of the other 
> > soon-to-be-graduates around you.  This motivation will carry you a long way in your career.  Who knows, you may be 
> > applying to someone here on this list one day...
> >
> > scott