nanog mailing list archives
Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure
From: Fred Baker <fred () cisco com>
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:06:18 -0800
One might say the same about the IETF, which Randy likes to lampoon. Not sure how it comes up in this context, as (as Randy loves to remind us) while many operators attend, it is not first-and-foremost an operational community. As to ICANN, I think Rich may be talking about the registries and registrars for their DNS names, but not the agency that coordinates them. At most, ICANN can give them suggestions. And as for addresses, they get them from their local ISPs.
What ICANN and many of the registries have in fact done is make an issue of domain name "tasting", which is a means by which some forms of abusers change names rapidly to evade filters. That is a matter of having the fox guard the henhouse, however; the registries make money on names being sold, and "tasting" is a means of making a lot of sales. So while some have good efforts there, not all are motivated to fight abuse.
As to addresses, we can point to at least one entire ISP shut down as most of the traffic coming from it was abusive. But for ISPs, it becomes at least in part a matter of the amount of trouble they cause their immediate neighbors. If they can link to other ISPs, who they sell their services too is somewhat opaque to the wider world. And since the abusers are not above "owning" systems, every network has some subset of its subscribers to think about.
I agree with your sentiment, Rich, and empathize with your frustration. Writing comments in blogs doesn't get the hard work of tools and policy done, though. You have to take the next step.
On Dec 30, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Paul Vixie wrote:
Randy Bush <randy () psg com> writes:If ARIN and/or RIPE and/or ICANN and/or anyone else were trulyinterested in making a dent in the problem, then they would have alreadypaid attention to our collective work product.the rirs, the ietf, the icann, ... each think they are the top of themountain. we are supposed to come to them and pray. more likely thatthe itu will come to them and prey.ARIN (an RIR) does not think in terms of mountains. the staff and company does what members and the elected board and elected advisory council ask. ARIN is a 501(c)(6) and sticks to its knitting, which thus far means no distinguished role in "spammers and their infrastructure" but that couldchange if someone writes a policy proposal which is adopted after the normal policy development process. please do consider whether ARIN could help with "spammers and theirinfrastructure" and if so, write a policy draft to that effect. ARIN is responsive to community input, and has well established and well publicized mechanisms for receiving and processing community input. nobody has to come and pray, but likewise, nobody should expect ARIN to look for mission creep opportunities. ARIN will go on doing what the community asks, noless, no more. ARIN has no mechanism, as a company, for "[paying]attention to [your] collective work product". our members, and the public at large who participates in ARIN's policy development process, do that.-- Paul Vixie Chairman, ARIN BoT KI6YSY
http://www.ipinc.net/IPv4.GIF
Current thread:
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure, (continued)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Rich Kulawiec (Dec 23)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Joel Jaeggli (Dec 23)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure J.D. Falk (Dec 23)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure O'Reirdan, Michael (Dec 23)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Jon Lewis (Dec 24)
- RE: Article on spammers and their infrastructure O'Reirdan, Michael (Dec 25)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Rich Kulawiec (Dec 30)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Randy Bush (Dec 30)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Jorge Amodio (Dec 30)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Paul Vixie (Dec 30)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Fred Baker (Dec 30)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Eric Brunner-Williams (Dec 31)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Barry Shein (Dec 31)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Paul Timmins (Dec 31)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure David Conrad (Dec 31)
- RE: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Alex Lanstein (Dec 31)
- Re: Article on spammers and their infrastructure Jorge Amodio (Dec 31)