Re: Multi-6 [WAS: OT - Vint Cerf joins Google]

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet () consulintel es>]

I don't think is failing ... On the other way around: looking at the
adoption perspectives and compared with other technologies, transition
stages, and so on, is going much faster than expected ...

Regards,
Jordi




> De: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick () ianai net>
> Responder a: <owner-nanog () merit edu>
> Fecha: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:42:33 -0400
> Para: <nanog () nanog org>
> CC: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick () ianai net>
> Asunto: Re: Multi-6 [WAS: OT - Vint Cerf joins Google]
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2005, at 10:17 AM, Joe Abley wrote:
>
> > > [Perhaps this thread should migrate to Multi6?]
> >
> > multi6 hasn't existed for some time. The "level-3 shim" approach to
> > multi-homing that was the primary output of multi6 is being
> > discussed in shim6.
>
> Guess I'm behind.  I'll have to subscribe to shim6.
>
>
> > > Suppose they not only have no plan but couldn't really put
> > > together a plan to support 200 customers?  Does this mean Google,
> > > or any other content provider, is "unworthy" of globally routeable
> > > space?
> >
> > Yes, according to the current RIR policies. [So the determination
> > of "unworthy" above has been made, in effect, by RIR members.]
>
> And this is why v6 has failed and will continue to fail.
>
> The Internet is no longer an academic experiment.  It is not run by
> the 'best technology'.  It is run by the best business results.
>
> Content providers and other large business, without who's funds the
> Internet would fail, have a right not to be tied to a single
> provider.  And while I admit I am not up-to-date on v6 multi-homing
> strategies, the ones I have seen are either evil, unworkable or
> ridiculous, and simply will not fly.
>
>
> > 's not as though this line of thinking hasn't been followed many,
> > many times before. The counter-argument goes like this:
> >
> > 1. There is more v6 space than there is v4 space, by virtue of the
> > fact that the address is 96 bits wider.
> >
> > 2. Because there is vastly more v6 space than v4 space, if
> > entitlement to PI space in v6 was opened up the chances are many
> > more people would have v6 PI space than currently have v4 PI space.
>
> This assumption has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
>
>
> > 3. Every PI assignment/allocation takes up a routing slot in every
> > router in the DFZ.
> >
> > 4. Given 2 and 3, there is potential for the amount of state in the
> > DFZ to exceed the capabilities of the network to hold and process
> > it (e.g. enormous RIBs, soaring processor requirements for dealing
> > with updates, etc).
>
> Ignoring the problems with #2, what is made of the idea that each AS
> might only have a single block, since blocks are so much larger?
> (And lots of other questions I'm sure you guys have already covered
> which are probably not on-topic for NANOG.)
>
>
> > It's possible that the number of PI assignments might not be that
> > high, and the scaling properties in practice might not be so bad.
> > However, you only get to find this out after you've opened the
> > floodgates, and if it turns out that it doesn't scale, it's hard to
> > push the water back into the reservoir.
> >
> > The goal in shim6 is to find a mechanism which provides all the
> > functional benefits of multi-homing without holding all the state
> > in DFZ routers.
>
> Perhaps the goal ... was chosen poorly?
>
>
> > There seems to be some ongoing perception that various protocol/
> > research organisations have no idea about the value of multi-homing
> > for enterprises in the real network, and hence ignore it. While
> > that might have once been the case (I certainly remember thinking
> > so around 1997 whilst shouting on the ipng list), I don't believe
> > it's the case today.
>
> That is _absolutely_ the impression I get from speaking to v6
> supporters today.  The profess otherwise, but the solutions and
> technologies they suggest disprove their protestations.
>
> Guess I better get over to shim6 and see what I'm missing out on.
>
> -- 
> TTFN,
> patrick




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