Re: How many protocols...

["Stephen J. Wilcox" <steve () opaltelecom co uk>]

The argument is failing because the original comment was too simplistic -
"I wouldn't call it an isp if they only allowed tcp, udp and icmp"

If you want to receive a multicast stream sure the data is transmitted on
udp or whatever but you need igmp to be running between yourself and the
router to join the group and you also need the network itself to be
running multicast routing (dvmrp/pim whatever)

You are also assuming that the network is running standard ip routing such
as bgp, ospf etc .. now before you say "obviously" .. its not obvious, you
need to define what you want to use your internet connection for, i used
the multicast example as if your intent is to use multicast then if its
not running the multicast routing protocols you wont get multicast!

The argument should have been more along the lines of does the particular
provider support all the features -you- wish to use. I might provide only
dialup, email and web access but providing thats what my customers want am
I any less a provider than someone who supports IP, IPSec, IPv6,
multicast, RSVP etc etc 

Steve


On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Magnus Boden wrote:

> I don't expect my isp to run stuff on their router any more than I
> expect my isp to block stuff.
>
> I don't know everything about igmp since hardly anyone I know uses it (I
> don't work at an ISP though) but If i send packets with the
> ipheader->protocol field set to igmp (2 I think) destined for another
> computer on the internet I don't expect you to drop it (I know this is
> silly because IGMP doesn't work that way).
>
> I don't see the point to this.
> What you are talking about is routing multicast not wheter you are
> filtering out certain protocols. There is a diffrence with not
> supporting something and filtering something out without a reason.
>
> I can see that for an isp to route multicast it cost extra money for the
> customer since you have to configure a lot of shit on your side but what
> we are talking about is the opposite. If you/ISP is going to filter out
> protocols you need to configure access lists or something for no good
> reason except to piss the customer off.
>
> //Magnus
>
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 09:15:14AM +0100, Stephen J. Wilcox wrote:
> > igmp?
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 19 Jun 2002, Magnus Boden wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > multicasting has nothing to do with ipheader->protocol as far as I know.
> > > So my definition doesn't consider multicasting.
> > >
> > > //Magnus
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 12, 2002 at 10:03:29AM +0100, Stephen J. Wilcox wrote:
> > > > I dont provide multicast, am I not an ISP by your definition? I think so..
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Matt Levine wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: owner-nanog () merit edu [mailto:owner-nanog () merit edu] On 
> > > > > > Behalf Of Stephen Sprunk
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 8:33 AM
> > > > > > To: Magnus Boden
> > > > > > Cc: North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes
> > > > > > Subject: Re: How many protocols...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thus spake "Magnus Boden" <mb () ozaba cx>
> > > > > > > I wouldn't call it an isp if they only allowed tcp, udp and icmp.
> > > > > > > It should be all ip protocols.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There can be a maximum of 256 of them. The isp shouldn't care what
> > > > > > > the ipheader->protocol field is set to.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is at least one ISP here in the US that filters 
> > > > > > protocol 50 (IPsec ESP).
> > > > > > Does that mean they're really not an ISP?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > S
> > > > > They can still call themselves whatever they want, but I wouldn't
> > > > > consider them an ISP, as they're not provider a very key part of my
> > > > > "Internet experience".  I'd feel the same way if they filtered google.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > Matt
> > > > > --
> > > > > Matt Levine
> > > > > @Home: matt () deliver3 com
> > > > > @Work: matt () eldosales com
> > > > > ICQ  : 17080004
> > > > > AIM  : exile
> > > > > GPG  : http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0D04CF
> > > > > "The Trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody
> > > > > appreciates how difficult it was."  -BIX