Re: engineering --> ddos and flooding

[Joel Jaeggli <joelja () darkwing uoregon edu>]

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Andrew Dorsett wrote:

> I'm going to reply to my own post here.  I am thoroughly impressed.  I sent
> the message out and in 10 minutes I had two replies.  Keep the ideas
> coming, I will form up a general suggestion message and post it later.  One
> thing to think about, I want a way to do it without having to call a NOC
> like Genuity and asking them to put in a filter, I want a way to do
> something about it at a lower level.

If you think about what you're asking for means operationally, what you
want is the ability to get your upstream to allow you to install filters
on their routers... That requires a great of deal trust, which is not
likely to be forthcoming in the current evironment.

>  Like multiple connections....Remember
> NOC calls take time because of hold times...  Someone just told me (on
> here) that the IETF is working on something,

That was Jared

> anyone know how many more
> years it will take for that protocol?

One of the obersevations I would make up you original question is that dos
attacks do not in this day and age typically originate in core networks
but rather on tens or hundreds or thousands of edge network devices...
your upstream is unlikely to have a good handle on the actual source of
the attack (which in any case may be several locations) rather it's far
more easy to characterize the target (you) and filter on that.

> Thanks again,
> Andrew
>
> At 05:59 PM 5/31/2001, you wrote:
> > Hey, this is a technical question for all of the Network
> > Engineers/Architects on the list.  Has a method been found to stop an
> > incoming attack?  Granted you can filter the packets to null on the
> > router, but that doesn't stop them from coming across the wire and into
> > the router.  Has a way been devised to stop them from coming into the
> > router; via something like a BGP update to null the packets or what?  I'm
> > concerned about a flood that is so massive coming from the core and
> > flooding a small T1 or less.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Andrew
> > ---
> > <zerocool () netpath net>
> > http://www.andrewsworld.net/
> > ICQ: 2895251
> > Cisco Certified Network Associate
> > Development Assistant: Netpath/Stratonet, Inc.
> >                        (http://www.netpath.net/)
> >                        Email: dorsett () netpath net
> >
> > "Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all
> > of them yourself." -- Unknown
> > "YEEEHA!!! What a CRASH!!!" -- Random System Administrator
>
> ---
> <zerocool () netpath net>
> http://www.andrewsworld.net/
> ICQ: 2895251
> Cisco Certified Network Associate
> Development Assistant: Netpath/Stratonet, Inc.
>                         (http://www.netpath.net/)
>                         Email: dorsett () netpath net
>
> "Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all
> of them yourself." -- Unknown
> "YEEEHA!!! What a CRASH!!!" -- Random System Administrator

-- 
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Joel Jaeggli                                   joelja () darkwing uoregon edu
Academic User Services                       consult () gladstone uoregon edu
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