Interesting People mailing list archives
Re: MUST READ: Google may end China operations over data breach
From: Dave Farber <dave () farber net>
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:15:38 -0500
Begin forwarded message:
From: Dennis Allison <drallison () gmail com> Date: January 13, 2010 5:42:12 PM EST To: dave () farber net Cc: ip <ip () v2 listbox com>Subject: Re: [IP] Re: MUST READ: Google may end China operations over data breach
If you had read the Google blog post, you would know that the precipitating event for Google's action was a series of intrusions identified by Google as originating at Chinese sites. I presume that Google has some incontrovertible evidence that the intrusions originated in China and were officially sanctioned. It would be nice to see that evidence to confirm that the Google folks were not spoofed. Google tried to be a good citizen and follow local conventions (censorship) and when China abrogated the rules of good citizenship, Google no long felt constrained to maintain censorship. The real problem has its roots in other bad acts which Google attributes to the Chinese government.From the original blog post:Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis. In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different.First, this attack was not just on Google. As part of our investigation we have discovered that at least twenty other large companies from a wide range of businesses--including the Internet, finance, technology, media and chemical sectors--have been similarly targeted. We are currently in the process of notifying those companies, and we are also working with the relevant U.S. authorities.Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. Based on our investigation to date we believe their attack did not achieve that objective. Only two Gmail accounts appear to have been accessed, and that activity was limited to account information (such as the date the account was created) and subject line, rather than the content of emails themselves.Third, as part of this investigation but independent of the attack on Google, we have discovered that the accounts of dozens of U.S.-, China- and Europe-based Gmail users who are advocates of human rights in China appear to have been routinely accessed by third parties. These accounts have not been accessed through any security breach at Google, but most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on the users' computers.We have already used information gained from this attack to make infrastructure and architectural improvements that enhance security for Google and for our users. In terms of individual users, we would advise people to deploy reputable anti-virus and anti-spyware programs on their computers, to install patches for their operating systems and to update their web browsers. Always be cautious when clicking on links appearing in instant messages and emails, or when asked to share personal information like passwords online. You can read more here about our cyber-security recommendations. People wanting to learn more about these kinds of attacks can read this report (PDF) by the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, as well as a related analysis (PDF) prepared for the Commission, Nart Villeneuve's blog and this presentation on the GhostNet spying incident.On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 1:59 PM, David Farber <dave () farber net> wrote: Begin forwarded message: From: Andrew C Burnette <acb () acb net> Date: January 13, 2010 4:46:41 PM EST To: dave () farber net Cc: edyson () edventure com, Brett Glass <brett () lariat net>Subject: Re: [IP] re MUST READ: Google may end China operations over data breachHi Folks,I would say at a more fundamental level, the issue that has google "torqued" (and rightly so) is not the sovereign rules of a given country in which they operate, but the apparently blatant violation of their systems (including that which is intended to comply with the local law).Many countries (India is a good example, with VSNL having bought numerous undersea cable systems; they require key escrow for all comms across their systems) have specific requirements, including our much maligned patriot act. Google does business in compliance with local laws for the most part, as do many multinationals.(for better or worse, at least here in the US, if you actually had a choice, you could vote those legislators out who authorize the patriot act or other such questionable laws....but that's not what's in play here)So, I think I'm highlighting the "compliance with local law" versus "hacking into my [company] systems without permission" as the major difference here.Best regards, Andy Burnette On 01/13/2010 02:51 PM, Dave Farber wrote: > > > > > Begin forwarded message: >>> *From:* Esther Dyson <edyson () edventure com <mailto:edyson () edventure com >>>> *Date:* January 13, 2010 2:26:36 PM EST>> *To:* <mailto:dave () farber net>dave () farber net <mailto:dave () farber net >>> *Cc:* Brett Glass <brett () lariat net <mailto:brett () lariat net>>>> *Subject:* *Re: [IP] MUST READ: Google may end China operations over>> data breach* >> >> there's a big difference in how censorship works in those two>> countries. Of course, it's always dangerous to leave too much power to>> governments, but it's foolish not to make appropriate distinctions. >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 13, 2010, at 2:08 PM, David Farber wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>> From: Brett Glass <brett () lariat net <mailto:brett () lariat net>> >>> Date: January 13, 2010 12:18:16 AM EST >>> To: dave () farber net <mailto:dave () farber net>, "ip" <ip () v2 listbox com >>> <mailto:ip () v2 listbox com>>>>> Subject: Re: [IP] ] MUST READ: Google may end China operations over>>> data breach >>> >>> What I find extremely interesting is that Google is protesting >>> censorship by the Chinese government but is willingly cooperating >>> with the Indian government to censor not only searches but also >>> online discussions; see >>> >>> http://www.inquisitr.com/3901/google-training-censorship-police-in-india/ >>> >>> http://www.boingboing.net/2007/03/13/india_googles_orkut_.html >>> >>> http://advocacy.globalvoicesonline.org/2008/05/22/india-google-assists-police-in-orkut-users-arrest/ >>>>>> This inconsistency makes one wonder whether Google is sincere in its>>> condemnation of Chinese censorship, or whether it is considering >>> abandoning China because it is having difficulty making a profit >>> there and is being beaten by local competitor Baidu; see >>> >>> http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2007/10/26/googles-chinese-competitor-baidu-doubles-profit >>> >>> --Brett Glass >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> Archives: >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now>https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/>https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ >>> Powered by Listbox: <http://www.listbox.com>http://www.listbox.com >> >> Esther Dyson >> edyson () edventure com <mailto:edyson () edventure com> >> >> 632 Broadway, 10th floor >> New York, NY 10012 >> USA >> >> www.edventure.com <http://www.edventure.com> >> www.flickr.com/photos/edyson <http://www.flickr.com/photos/edyson> >> @edyson >> >> >> >> >> > Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/> [Powered by Listbox]> <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/247/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/247/ Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
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